NHS Consultation?

[observer]

Has anyone seen or responded to the Gov consultation on proposed changes to the NHS?

[Cleopatra]

No.

[Dizzy]

No.. not seen therefore not responded (did they want our views?)

[Cleopatra]

Not really, probably just asking so they can say the people were consulted. They won't take a blind bit of notice, won't make any difference.

[observer]

From what I've heard, it seems merely an attempt by stealth, to privatise the NHS - perhaps the most worthwhile legacy of any British Gov - and now they want to wreck it.

[asperity]

If the NHS was privatised and what emerged was a better NHS, still free to the user, would you still be objecting on principle because it was no longer government run? Or would you admit that you may have been wrong? Just wondering. <_<

[inky pete]

It's already part privatised. Private cleaning companies, private catering companies, private construction and building maintenance companies, private nursing agencies, private drug companies, doctors and consultants running private practices in parallel to their NHS duties. All of which have shown that the public sector management currently in place within the NHS are the real source of the problem. Most of them couldn't manage to find their way out of a paper bag, never mind manage a large and complex set of contracts effectively to get value for money out of their external suppliers.

[Lt Kije]

Wrong inky, most of the problems came about when they started to privatise parts of it, when they privatised the cleaning is when the problems started, as they cut wages. And the job was not done properlly .

[inky pete]

But it's always been NHS managers in charge of negotiating the prices, awarding the contracts, setting the contracted service levels, ensuring those service levels are delivered, etc. etc.

 

That is where they've fallen down.

 

You never hear of the same problems in private hospitals, or even in industrial food or pharmaceutical manufacturers, when it's often precisely the same cleaning or maintainence companies doing the actual cleaning and maintaining.

[Lt Kije]

The only way you can cut prices to win a cleaning contract is to cut wages, which they did and you end up with staff to match the wage. The dross.!!!

[observer]

Private Companies have to make a profit - that's their whole point and purpose. To do that and still undercut the opposition, can only be achieved through cutting corners and wages, as with some elderly care homes; or hiking charges, as with our energy companies. When they did contract out cleaning, we got MRSA etc. Current blunders by private sector plastic surgeons, are usually left for the NHS to pick up the tab.

[asperity]

But surely it is the job of MANAGEMENT to balance cost against results? :shock:

[observer]

I'm certainly not going to defend NHS "management", having watched that Robinson chap's prog; but getting a grip of "management", kicking a**s and driving for efficiency, without dropping standards, isn't the same as privatising it.

[asperity]

But unfortunately government (of each hue) has shown itself incapable of kicking ass and achieving anything approaching efficiency. They have allowed the PUBLIC sector management to do what they like and we are reaping the reward - an NHS which, far from being the envy of the world, is becoming a laughing stock. :shock:

[observer]

That why I would like to see an independent authority running it - rather than it being the regular football for policians to play with.

[asperity]

Another QUANGO? Give it rest!!! :rolleyes:

[observer]

You mean like most of the Banks now are - and the Energy Companies arn't?!

[asperity]

Well now your getting it Obs. Quangos are really making sure the banks and energy companies are run properly aren't they :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[observer]

Errm nope - the Energy Companies are private, and ineffectively controlled by OfGen; the Banks are seemingly not being controlled by their major share holder - the Gov.

[asperity]

The FSA is not a quango then Obs? You have to stop cherry picking your arguments to suit your prejudices.

[observer]

The FSA is like OfGem, although it has been bolstered recently, but they don't directly control the day to day activities of each Bank, hence the moan from Gov, that they (the Banks) wern't lending enough.

[asperity]

Of course they don't control the day to day activities of each bank, what a stupid statement! The FSA can only police the guidelines and, like most of these overpriced and bloated quangoes, is largely ineffective. The only way the banks are going to lend more money is when the government sets the right conditions for the banks to do what they need to do to make a profit. That is what economics is all about, people doing things to make a profit. :wink:

[observer]

You mean - like lending to folk who can't pay back the loan?!

[asperity]

And who forced that on to the banks? Government. Bill (I did not have sexual relations with that woman) Clinton and Gordon (Prudence) Brown. I rest my case. :rolleyes:

[asperity]

I must add that Prudence wasn't the woman Bill was talking about, just to make things clear :lol: :lol: :lol: