Cleopatra Posted October 16, 2011 Report Share Posted October 16, 2011 Mark my words! Sooner or later the EU will collapse and disintigrate! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazj Posted October 16, 2011 Report Share Posted October 16, 2011 Of course it will..... you can't have an economy the size of Germany or France on an equal footing with somewhere like Portugal or Greece; they are so so different. The German chancellor may be all smiles when standing next to Pres. Sarcastic, but she knows that back at home, the majority of the German people do not want to be the cash cow for a bunch of failing economies and sooner or later they will let their voices be heard. Especially as the Germans are pumping billions into the Greece economy and the Greeks are just striking because they don't want to do anything to help themselves in the way of cuts or actually paying taxes...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
algy Posted October 16, 2011 Report Share Posted October 16, 2011 Error! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
algy Posted October 16, 2011 Report Share Posted October 16, 2011 Baz, sorry to interject on this topic but more info for you on a PM. algy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazj Posted October 16, 2011 Report Share Posted October 16, 2011 excellent.... thanks Algy. I will look a bit closer later Baz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted October 16, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 16, 2011 Your arguements make sense Baz, but the politicians arn't listening, cos basically they can't do a thing about it while we're still in the EU. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inky pete Posted October 16, 2011 Report Share Posted October 16, 2011 Good idea to undercut the Chinese and Indian labour markets Inky, but perhaps living costs are slightly higher here?! :smile: I'm talking about jobs paying 16 to 18K Obs, hardly slave labour rates! These 30 jobs are predominantly being done by migrant workers who are living here and experiencing the same cost of living as any of the rest of us - probably more so since they're not living at home with parents! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inky pete Posted October 16, 2011 Report Share Posted October 16, 2011 Have we enough work for a million economic migrants?, I would question those numbers, Of course you would Lt, because to you they are an "inconvenient truth" Figures provided by research carried out by the House of Commons Library The total foreign workforce in the UK rose from 2million to 3.7 million under the last government - 1.1 million of whom are non-EU nationals who have no treaty rights to be here, but who've been granted work permits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleopatra Posted October 16, 2011 Report Share Posted October 16, 2011 And don't forget they will increase the population of uk in the natural way, by having children and their children having children and so on and so forth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazj Posted October 16, 2011 Report Share Posted October 16, 2011 Inky.... a lot of the Eastern Europeans do not have the same cost of living issues that we have. They live 10 and 20 to a house and share the rent between them instead of the UK way of living one family to one house.... Lots of houses like that. My mate has one which he rents out near Bewsey and there are 9 Polish living in there..... One in Callands that I know of had at least 8 if not more so the rents they face are less per individual than we face Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inky pete Posted October 16, 2011 Report Share Posted October 16, 2011 If they're living more than 3 or 4 unrelated people to a house then the landlord needs to have a licence to run an HMO (House in Multiple Occupancy). That means fire doors, mains smoke alarms, multiple bathrooms, multiple kitchens, etc. etc. Of course, there are slum landlords who ignore the law - and lazy local authority staff who don't enforce it as long as the council tax keeps being paid. But the majority of Eastern Europeans I know through work are living 3 to a house in "student houses" in areas of Liverpool where there is a lot of such accomodation. OK, they don't have as high a rent to pay as if they were renting a house all on their own, but they experience exactly the same cost of living as a 21 year old Brit in the same situation. Less - as I said - than a youngster still living at home and chucking parents a few tenners a week for board. Even so, out of a wage of 16 to 18K - which works out at £1100 to £1200 a month take home after tax - a single person could rent themselves somewhere very nice and still have a good social life and decent standard of living. If you don't believe me just check out Rightmove for property to rent in Warrington at under £500pcm. They could also do a house share for around half of that - which would leave at least £800 a month for food, bills and socialising! Young Brits have ABSOLUTELY NO excuse for not even applying for these jobs when they're advertised (which they are regularly, since about half of the Poles at any one time are only here for a year or so). Unfortunately, they see reports like this - Graduate Salaries - and assume that their degree in Mickey-Mouse-anomics entitles them to £25K+ from day 1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted October 16, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 16, 2011 Also helps of course, if we had an education system that turned out suitably qualified youngsters - not many manufacturing jobs for Arts students! :grin: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inky pete Posted October 16, 2011 Report Share Posted October 16, 2011 Now that they're paying for their own higher educations (or at least, some realistic proportion of it) maybe they'll start to select courses which have a little merit in the real world. But the real problem is the sense of absolute entitlement that most British youngsters seem to have pretty much from birth these days, and which gets compounded even more once half of them start calling themselves "graduates". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt Kije Posted October 16, 2011 Report Share Posted October 16, 2011 You sound in favour of paying to go to uni inky If I except your figures inky 1.1 million non eu nationals, not all of those will be in the low wage bracket, you put them their for effect And if you could send them hone you still have the problem of people here taking those jobs, Which is probably the reason why immigrants are doing them in the first place as no one from here wanted those jobs :!: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazj Posted October 16, 2011 Report Share Posted October 16, 2011 there should be no choice in the matter when it comes to non-skilled jobs for non skilled people. Do the job or lose the benefits.... simples Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inky pete Posted October 16, 2011 Report Share Posted October 16, 2011 You sound in favour of paying to go to uni inky When I went it was on merit. I was one of the top 10% of the top 10% who got good enough grades in real exams to be accepted into a top engineering university to spend 30+ hours a week in lectures and tutorials, and another 20+ hours a week in the labs (usually on night shifts, since that's when the expensive equipment wasn't being used for commercial research) to study an engineering discipline. Oh, and then all the time it took to research subjects, write up reports and essays, write software to interpret results, and design follow-on experiments. Now that half of all 18 year olds are apparently magically clever enough to get a degree (without, we're assured, any dumbing down of either A'levels or degrees) then the country can no longer afford to fund them all. I would favour a system whereby those who wanted to study were responsible for the full costs, but where the government offered bursaries for places on courses deemed to be both of high quality and of high value to the country economically. If I except your figures inky 1.1 not my figures Lt, House of Commons Library figures. not all of those will be in the low wage bracket True, not all of the 3.7 million total foreigners perhaps. But we certainly don't have 3.7 million foreign rocket scientists and brain surgeons here, do we. And if you could send them hone you still have the problem of people here taking those jobs, Which is probably the reason why immigrants are doing them in the first place as no one from here wanted those jobs :!: Like I said, a big part of the problem is the sense of entitlement carried around by most Brit youngsters, and a benefit system which doesn't incentivise work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inky pete Posted October 16, 2011 Report Share Posted October 16, 2011 there should be no choice in the matter when it comes to non-skilled jobs for non skilled people. Do the job or lose the benefits.... simples Agree, in principle. But would you want a reluctant and possibly disruptive employee in your organisation when all the rest of you are just trying to make a living? The laws around sacking someone early in their employment would need making much clearer, otherwise you risk being stuck with employees who are just going to cost you money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt Kije Posted October 16, 2011 Report Share Posted October 16, 2011 When you went it was on merit, it always been the same inky People go to university now on merit :!: :!: :!: All men a born equal, its just some are more equal than others Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazj Posted October 16, 2011 Report Share Posted October 16, 2011 Inky.... it is still quite easy to get rid of rubbish staff by putting them on 3 or 6 month trials etc..... Kije.... your last statement is just pathetic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt Kije Posted October 16, 2011 Report Share Posted October 16, 2011 People do go to university on merit, as they did when inky went :!: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazj Posted October 16, 2011 Report Share Posted October 16, 2011 People do go to university on merit, as they did when inky went :!: that was you next to last statement..... I guess you never made the merit bit? as for merit, it is easily gained when 80 and 90% are passing dumbed down exams and are all told they are good enough to be a university Graduate.... we have no skills being taught anymore... we need plumbers and electricians; we shouldn't be importing them from Poland on £8.00 an hour! we ned to stop kidding the kids that they are all now suddenly bright enough to be doctors and scientists when some wouldn't pass the brushing up and brewing up test of the average 80's apprenticeship Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt Kije Posted October 16, 2011 Report Share Posted October 16, 2011 My Daughter will be going to Uni to become a nurse, I can assure you it was done on merit :!: :!: :!: One for inky. If you would have had to pay for university, would you have been able to go Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted October 16, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 16, 2011 If only they wanted to be "Doctors or Scientists" Baz; rather than Media types, Fine Arts critics etc. How did we ever fill all these vacancies, before the EU foisted Shengen upon us? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asperity Posted October 16, 2011 Report Share Posted October 16, 2011 Please correct me if I'm wrong, but a student doesn't have to start to pay off the loan for the fees etc until up to 12 months after finishing the course, and only at a rate based on 9% of the amount they are earning above £15000. And the present interest on the loan is only 1.5%. This doesn't sound exactly onerous (I wish my mortgage and various bank loans had been on such generous terms!) And if it stops people going to university to take non degrees and to seek more suitable employment for their talents all well and good. Student loans <_< Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt Kije Posted October 16, 2011 Report Share Posted October 16, 2011 We are not in Shengen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.