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local councillors disrespecting War veterans


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well done to the four out of 57 councillors that could be bothered to turn up to pay respect to our War veterans.


This isnt some Eastern bloc celebration of our fighting capabilities its an appreciation for our War heroes both living and dead.

When honouring our War dead its one of the few times I feel pride in our country and for the vast number of Councillors not to turn up for this event is shocking....( i didnt even realise we needed 57 councillors anyway).


the remaining 53 councillors should all be made to stand in the golden Square selling poppies then next time they might not be so quick to show a lack of respect.


and as for councillor Patels remark that not every councillor is a Christian and feels comfortable attending a church service....its an absolutely disgusting excuse...


i'm sure what our war veterns have experienced was certainly not Comfortable....and I would have no problem in honouring them in any form of religous building...

I hope he finds the two minutes silence on the 11th much more comfortable and to his liking..??


Well done to the attendees Graham Welborn, Keith Bland, Sheila Woodyatt and George Warburton.

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It is possible for one to respect the war dead without having to go to a church service or make a song and dance about it. Everyone has their personal way of remembering those we have lost.


I think it would be absolutely hypocritical of one to attend a church service when you don't believe in the faith - it's actually rather insulting to devout Christians.


Attendance at the cenotaph is a different issue though as it is largely non religious and would therefore be a time when you'd probably get a higher turn out.


Edit: agree with Observer re: buying a poppy/donating to charities that help veterans - that is more respectful and useful to them and we should be encouraging this act.


[ 02.11.2007, 16:09: Message edited by: harmless loony ]

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Harmless et al.


what an absolute load of lefty claptrap. How the hell can you and the likes justify not attending a service to honour the dead of this country just because it is based on the Christian faith? The Christian faith WAS the dominant faith in this country when most of these men gave their lives


For some 2 bit politician to use that as an excuse is nothing short of disgraceful and as has been said already; him and the other 50 odd should be brought to account.


They represent THIS community which isn't all made up of foreigners and non-believers. Also, just remember the large amount of other faiths who died alonside their christian counterparts who are also remembered during these services.


I'm sure the likes of obs and harmless and the other whingers will be taking their hard earned CHRISTMAS breaks this year? or maybe a few days away at EASTER next year perhaps?


It is about time that the likes of Patel and others were reminded that without the sacrifices made on our behalf all those years ago (and even those still being made today), the world would be a much different place.


I am not a practising christian in any way shape or form, but I have enough respect for what the ceremony stands for to rise above that and enough to know that if I held a position like the 53, I would attend out of respect, not offer petty excuses as a way of getting out of it

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Actually more non Christians fought and died in the wars and I go to the Mosque to remember them - like I said I don't need to show my face in a hypocritical manner at a church to show I care and have some respect. Just because the Mayor and co don't turn up to the other religious venues to remember the dead doesn't mean that people of other faiths aren't doing the remembering. Why can't people respect that everyone has different ways of remembering those who we have lost?


If the service was rotated and say held in the Gurdwara next year - would we see all the usual folk and the Mayor turn up? It would be fitting given more Indians died then British folk fighting for the allies. I somehow think the usual crowd would disappear....The church service doesn't even make reference to the fact that people of other faiths died in the wars the talks tend to surround Christian soldiers and giving them a place in Heaven - but what about those who don't believe in Heaven and died in the wars? Isn't that an insult to their memory that we don't respect their belief?


By the way it did make me laugh that you just called me lefty...as nothing could be further from the truth!


Oh and for the record I'm not taking a Christmas break.....never have done...I've always worked through...incidentally I've pretty much always been made to work through Eid as well....


And to be a non Christian in a church ceremony is still a grand gesture of tokenism and absolutely disrespectful to Christian folk. I would not demean them in that way. But I have been at the cenotaph (either in Warrington or whichever town I'm in at the time every single year...)


My great grandfather always used to find ceremonies and rememberance things difficult to comprehend - he always pointed out that soldiers and veterans don't need ceremonies (where everyone turns up to show their face) they need financial support and palliative care (where very few people show their face). So out of all those who do show their faces at church and feel proud to have "done their bit" where are you when the survivors desperately need you? Are you petitioning the govt to provide extra support and finances? Are you volunteering your time to work with them? Or do you just pay a quid for your poppy and sit smugly knowing that you've done your bit for the year?


[ 03.11.2007, 01:01: Message edited by: harmless loony ]

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well even if I did just pay my quid and sit smugly, at least it would appear to be more than some are prepared to do.


because everyone seems to be of the opinion that holding these services in any form of religious place will always "offend" someone (and we all know how some religions get more "offended" than others.... why not have the rememberence services say in the Halliwell Jones stadium at half time? might be a way to cheer everyone up! ..... but then no doubt someone will be offended even at the thought!

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Originally posted by BazJ:

why not have the rememberence services say in the Halliwell Jones stadium at half time? might be a way to cheer everyone up! ..... but then no doubt someone will be offended even at the thought!

Cheer everyone up??? somehow i dont think thats the idea of rememberence day do you? but i do hope that was made as a tongue in cheek remark :P

Everyone should remember the fallen in their own way wether it be in a Church or in their own home main thing is we dont forget...



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Not only international wars, but civil ones as well in the form of genocide.


Man's inhumanity to man, knows no bounds.


I happen to think that Mayor Jordan made a reasonable point, 4 (5 including the Mayor herself)out of 57 was a poor turnout for a civic ceremony that other civic heads attended. And I guess she felt, rightly in my opinion, that it reflected badly on her as a proud Mayor, Warrington and its elected representatives. Maybe, with the benefit of hindsight, those who made excuses might have been better to have not made them and just kept quiet, and accepted Celia's chiding. :wink:


[ 04.11.2007, 14:26: Message edited by: Paul Kennedy ]

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Surely November 11th is an occasion to remember, to honour and give thanks to the individuals who have died or have been wounded in ALL wars and conflicts- and to remind everyone of the mistakes of history- NO MATTER WHAT RELIGION?


The idea of politics of any kind, wether secular or church based, using rememberence for any excuse to "score points" should be something that should be discouraged.


It is a good time to look again at the question of "rememberance"- and although usually I have "PC-isms" it is time to reflect the mix of cultures and religions of the people we commemmorate. This year especially, the religions could do a great deal worse than to show a united front in rememberance- to reflect the sacrifice made by Muslims for Catholics, Buddhists for Jews, and Hindus for Protestants. The Cenotaph ceremony- in my opinion- should not only have the Archbishop of Canterbury saying his piece, but also the Chief Rabbi and Chief Imam conducting prayers, and the head Lama offering an incantation. Showing that the religions CAN work together may just filter through to the masses.


As for the halliwell Jones idea- why not? Playing in stadia didnt do Billy Graham any harm!

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