asperity Posted March 13, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 13, 2011 Then I will take it, it was just a bad attempt at trolling by you. Having lost the debate Then I will take it that you accept the Israelis' right to a secure homeland, and their right to take measures to protect their citizens from terrorists, a defensive wall included. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt Kije Posted March 13, 2011 Report Share Posted March 13, 2011 Every Country has the right to defend themselves Asp, but if they are going to do it by building a wall, they should build the wall on their own land. As building it on someone else's might lead to one as they will want it back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asperity Posted March 13, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 13, 2011 As the Palestinians REFUSE to negotiate an amicable settlement, they have put the Israelis in an impossible position. As I said, damned if they do and damned if they don't. Given the choice of building a wall and being condemned for it but saving your citizens lives, or not building one and seeing your citizens left defenceless against criminal gangs (because that is what terrorists are) what would YOU do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt Kije Posted March 13, 2011 Report Share Posted March 13, 2011 So why not build it on their recognised border Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asperity Posted March 13, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 13, 2011 So why not build it on their recognised border The Palestinians don't recognise that there is a border. As far as they are concerned the nation of Israel does not exist and all the land is theirs. I speak as a generality here because if you asked the average Palestinian in the street, without Hamas prompting them, they would probably be happy to co-exist with their, lets face it, Israeli relatives. The problem is idealogical and has nothing to do with anything as concrete as borders (or walls come to think of it) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt Kije Posted March 13, 2011 Report Share Posted March 13, 2011 But the Israelis do so why not on the border People might think they are not going to give it back, And the Palestinians will negotiate, They want the right to return home or compensation for their land Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asperity Posted March 13, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 13, 2011 The Palestinian leaders (Hamas) aren't interested in negotiation, they want the extermination of Israel, nothing less than that. Faced with that sort of threat what would YOU do?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt Kije Posted March 13, 2011 Report Share Posted March 13, 2011 Build a wall, but I would have done on the border and not tried to take more land. As I have said they do have the right of self defence. They do not have the right to push yet more Palestinians out of their homes, who now will trundle off and join HAMAS because they will get nothing of Israel. They are both as bad as each other and in my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asperity Posted March 13, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 13, 2011 They are both as bad as each other and in my opinion. Build a wall or kill families in their beds. Hmmm, decisions, decisions http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/2011/03/islamic-jew-hatred-graphic-muslims-stab-jewish-family-of-five-to-death.html The religion of peace strikes again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt Kije Posted March 19, 2011 Report Share Posted March 19, 2011 How many Israeli troops have killed unarmed protesters Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazj Posted March 19, 2011 Report Share Posted March 19, 2011 How many Israeli troops have killed unarmed protesters Are you saying you prefer the palestinian terrorists then Kije? They are very good at blowing up bus stops full of school children and market halls full of women.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt Kije Posted March 19, 2011 Report Share Posted March 19, 2011 No, Do you even no why the Palestinians are fighting Baz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricky Posted March 20, 2011 Report Share Posted March 20, 2011 I've been told that Yasser Arafat ran the most successful propaganda campaign in history, by fabricating a country called Palestine. The Panestine identity is a fabrication from Arafat, there again, he was very pro Israel so i wernt sure wheather to believe him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt Kije Posted March 20, 2011 Report Share Posted March 20, 2011 Ricky did you know that Mr Churchill promised a Palestinian homeland for the Palestinians, If they supported the War effort, You might also look at some old maps, Pre 1946 Palestine is marked Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricky Posted March 20, 2011 Report Share Posted March 20, 2011 Do you have a link to these maps? Im always open minded to this subject, like yourself ive always thought the Israilies "stole" the palesinians land after WW2, until this guy thought otherwise, now i just sit on the fence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted March 20, 2011 Report Share Posted March 20, 2011 No need Rick - they've got a wall to sit on! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt Kije Posted March 20, 2011 Report Share Posted March 20, 2011 Just googled it got this link, http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/historical/history_middle_east.html Have a look at the top one, the map is crap but look at the title and date, I will look for some more and post them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted March 20, 2011 Report Share Posted March 20, 2011 Palastine was an artificial State carved out of the previous Ottoman Empire (Turkey) by the victorious Allies (French & British) following WWI. Palastine contained a majority Arab population but with a sizable minority of Jews. A British Army of 100,000 managed public order and sought to prevent the illegal immigration of Jews from Europe (as there were still 3million left after the Holocaust). The Brits failed to stem this immigration, and a terrorist campaign against the British by Argana and the Stern Gang, hastened a British withdrawal and the creation of the (Jewish) State of Israel, which has since undergone some enlargement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazj Posted March 20, 2011 Report Share Posted March 20, 2011 whatever the cause, whatever the reasons, when you start blowing up bus stops full of school children and market halls full of women.... you lose the argument Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted March 20, 2011 Report Share Posted March 20, 2011 .. on which basis, the Jews lost the arguement following the King David Hotel explosion and the murder of British soldiers and police. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazj Posted March 20, 2011 Report Share Posted March 20, 2011 so no one wins. so starting from now, who do u think will be the first to fire a shot??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted March 20, 2011 Report Share Posted March 20, 2011 Hatred and revenge are historical creations fostered imo by sectarian fanatics - get rid of the religious fanatics and there may be a chance for peace in a rational secular enviroment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt Kije Posted March 20, 2011 Report Share Posted March 20, 2011 I thought Palestine was around before ww1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted March 20, 2011 Report Share Posted March 20, 2011 Depends how far back you wish to go - the Israelis will claim they occupied the land of milk and honey when they escaped from Egypt; it formed three Roman provinces for a while, was occupied by Saladin and fought over by crusaders, until finally becoming part of the Ottoman Empire. However, the problem isn't one of a political State so much, as a religious one. When your dealing with zealots who believe that the biblical land was specifically given to them "by God", your frankly imo, not dealing with rational people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt Kije Posted March 20, 2011 Report Share Posted March 20, 2011 fair point Obs Would you mind telling asperity Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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