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EU presses UK over London air pollution


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Ricky makes it sound like the UK is being picked on, perhaps if he informed us how many other EU Countries were going to be fined and the criteria of the fines.


The point is Kije; what right have the EU got to fine us when we handover billions and billions to them every year?


In effect, we are paying to be fined!

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Did some of you miss this piece of information in the article?


"The Commission says PM10, emitted mainly by industry, traffic and domestic heating, can cause asthma, cardiovascular problems, lung cancer and premature death."


Instead of criticising the EU, shouldn't we be grateful that at least some 'body' is looking out for the health and welfare of the British general public........because our own government certainly doesn't seem interested in doing so!!!!!

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The word to look out for there is "CAN". This is used with other words like "MAY" "POSSIBLE" "IN CERTAIN CIRCUMSTANCES" etc in reports like this to create the idea of there being an actual problem where non actually exists. The air quality in this country is pristine compared with the way it was before the Clean Air Act, when all houses had coal fires and smog lasted for days in towns and cities. :wink::wink:

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But it could be better asperity :wink:



You may not of noticed, but especially on Europe people apart from you and myself do not like common sense to intrude on their anti European rants :wink:


I wouldn't describe my comment as a "rant" LtKije. I'm old enough to remember the days when you could smell the smoke in the air while walking to school. The strange thing is that the incidence of respitary complaints such as asthma is higher now than when we had the poor air quality. Discuss. :wink::wink:

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Obs, I agree with the point you are making in your last post, there's some really terrible waste in the administration of the European Parliament. This is not however exclusive to the EU, it's what has sadly become 'the norm' for most Governmental bodies and it's due to the self-serving mentality of the individuals that have managed to get themselves into positions of power. A bloody greedy, grasping, self-serving mentality that seems to have taken a hold in all the world's political systems and is spreading like a creeping cancer throughout society.


It needs to be addressed, but this can't be done until people become aware of what has caused and sustains its? growth.

The cause has been the apathetic acceptance of an ideology of a 'Me Me' culture and the blindness of the general public to the forms of social control which keep it in place.

The promotion of the ?Class System? and ?Nationalism? have through-out history been the most effective forms of social control and have been the means whereby a 'divide and rule' policy can control and manipulate the masses?. for nothing other than the interests of the self-serving manipulators!


Our Government, the Governments of the countries of Europe and the EU are infested with self-serving manipulators, and rather than allowing ourselves to be divided by these manipulators wouldn?t it make more sense to unite with the other ?ordinary? peoples in Europe and rid ourselves of our common oppressors?


The peoples of many of the countries of Europe are very closely genetically linked, we share much of our heritage and culture. For present and future times what we also have in common is the inability to be self-sustainable in an ever changing world.

So to me it makes sense that we should have a united Europe, and initially I was very enthusiastic. Now however, I have become concerned about the people in power and the form it is taking.

Like you Obs, I see the waste and the self-serving politicians operating at present, but unlike you I still see a united Europe as the way forward and think a change in form rather than abandonment is what is really needed.


There have been many positives to come out of our being in Europe and there could be so much more. The solution lies, as it does with our own country, in clearing out the rot and ensuring the people in power are working for the interests of the people rather than themselves!

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Sha.... we tried a while back to get Kije to give some idea of the positives which our country now benefits from for being part of the EU.


Some positives which in some way make up for the billions and billions of pounds that it has so far cost us and which it will continue to cost us as the EU look to expand even further and include the likes of Turkey etc......


Or a way to make up for the obvious abandonment of democracy which comes from an organisation which refuses to accept that three of its member states; voting on treaty ratifications based on guidelines issued by the EU itself, refuse to accept the result when it goes against them and insist on using coercion, threats and downright blackmail in order to get them to re-run the elections until they got the answer they wanted.


Now in the 1930's when that sort of thing happened in Germany, we were all up in arms against it; now we accept it as a beacon of the way forward, the way of the future????


You must be kidding! :lol:

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The problem is, that the development of Continental super-States are a recipe for super-Nationalism rather than Internationalism. (read Orwell's 1984). In a World of global competition for diminishing resources, super-national interests will inevitably lead to conflict. Aside from this, with some regions being seen (on ubiquitous TV coverage) as the lands of milk and honey, desperation in one region of the world will lead to migrations to another, and all the social and economic problems that come with it. The economic and political groupings that arise will probably exacerbate this, as self interest will lead to protectionism - believe the EU already operate tariffs for non-EU goods. Politically, whilst there appears a need for some form of workable World Government, the UN is clearly not there yet, and the self interest of mankind seems incapable of getting there at the moment. However, the problem with setting up new political institutions is, that they gravitate power unto themselves, becoming ever more disconnected from the people they are supposed to be serving, and thus less relevent. Power needs to be devolved to the lowest optimum level for politics to retain relevence and thus counter public apathy. :cry:

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On PM10, I believe, since every state official, from parish councillor, to MP's, are directly accountable to the citizentry of these islands. Therefore I can say, with great certainty that the citizenry, if they are indeed concerned with PM10, can lobby their respective elected representive to bring in regulations that will benefit (in this case) Londerners.


Unfortunatley about 8% of the European parl (which is just a show anyway) are directly accountable to the citizenry of these islands. The comission isnt accountable to the citizen, Herman Van Rompuy isnt accountable to the citizens, Baroness Ashton isnt accountable to the citizens, and this is essentially where my problem with the European Project lies.


Correct me if im wrong, but since january 1st 1973, we have been net contributors to the project. And into the future, as we surrender our rebates, the contribution will grow. If you include all the pension liabilities for public sector workers, the deficit is at around ?4 trillion. Public services are closing left, right and centre, many thousands of public secotor workers are facing the prospect of redundancy, the mortgages and bills will unfortunatley not be redundant, and yet this undemocratic, unaccountable monster was asking for a 6.9% budget increase! And they have the audacity to turn around to this country, and fine us for dodgy accounts, when the court of auditors have refused to signed off the accounts of the EU for 15 years!


The European Union has this agenda of indoctrination to pro EU ways. there are many "Monnet professors" in British universities, funded by the EU (our money) to essentially Indoctrinate University students to pro EU ways. School text books are funded by the EU (our money) that paints a rosy picture of the EU to the next generation. There is even that fiasco with the diaries, produced using EU money (our money) detailing all the religious holidays, apart of Christianity! I went to Strasbourg in December, saw the monster for myself, and the ammount of school kids going in was horific. What they were subjected to (I know because we were tried to be given the bulls**t ourselfs, but we just argued with the poor guy) was nearly an hour of pro EU propaganda, masquerading in this beacon of freedom, and democratic rights, before going into the public gallery. at the end of it we were thrusted with 250 euros cash for simply going to the parliament! As a 14 year old, after being TOLD the EU is fantastic, and being given 250 euros, you would think it was better than sliced bread!


I can go into the Europan Arrest Warrant, and External Action Service, but that will take another several paragraphs.


Personally I am all for Europe (including the UK) to trade, have alliances, and so on, while retaining their independance. What I will not stand for is this relentless Euro dream (which has already buggered up (or going to)) PIIGS, Indoctrinating Kids (so people like myself, Baz, and others will soon be demanised as "Idiots" by the washed masses), the democratic deficit of the project, and the sheer arrogance of the EU, comming out with comments such as "we must not bow down to populism".

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.........Being a liberal, Kije wants his cake and be allowed to eat it as well as feeding the hungry with it and housing the homeless in the box it came in.....


So you Baz, think the hungry should starve and the homeless sleep on the roadside.....and that's OK, so long as YOU are OK? :roll:

From some of the comments on here it is obvious you are in no way whatever a humanitarian.....one might wonder if you are even human! :shock: :shock: :shock:

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So because you talk a good game, you are somehow better than me or everyone else on here?


I come on here to have a bit of a laugh and a bit of banter so stop being such a miserable git and lighten up


This is a forum mate..... not real life.


If you are really so desperate to help; sell your over priced Appleton residence and move to Bewsey and then give the balance to charity.... until then; don't even attempt to lecture me or anyone else on helping the needy

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