observer Posted December 22, 2010 Report Share Posted December 22, 2010 Errm, actually, conventional wisdom said that the Earth was flat - and the "expert" who dared to suggest that it was round was tried for heresy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fugtifino Posted December 23, 2010 Report Share Posted December 23, 2010 The issue for debate is... Glad you see it as such, it ticks me off that so many people have already made their minds up without even trying to understand the issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
algy Posted December 23, 2010 Report Share Posted December 23, 2010 The issue for debate is... Glad you see it as such, it ticks me off that so many people have already made their minds up without even trying to understand the issues. Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it. Do not believe in anything simply because it is spoken and rumored by many. Do not believe in anything simply because it is found written in your religious books. Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and elders. Do not believe in traditions because they have been handed down for many generations. But after observation and analysis, when you find that anything agrees with reason and is conducive to the good and benefit of one and all, then accept it and live up to it. ~Buddha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter T Posted December 23, 2010 Report Share Posted December 23, 2010 Lot to be said for Buddhism. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted December 23, 2010 Report Share Posted December 23, 2010 Great bloke, that Buddah; believe he wouldn't hurt a fly! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt Kije Posted December 23, 2010 Report Share Posted December 23, 2010 where all of the hot places would become cold and all of the cold places would become hot. They might have said that in the States, but not here, but judging what the American right were saying about the UK health service when you were having your debate about health reform it would not surprise me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stallard12 Posted December 23, 2010 Report Share Posted December 23, 2010 I actually heard the comment about the 'moisture factor' from a UK soccer commentator on one of the two matches on tv last weekend - he was passing on the official explanation, so they are apparently 'saying that' in the UK. Y'all also have the leading university 'researchers' manipulating data that doesn't support their theory. I personally experienced the National Health Service for forty years and the American right had it right. Compared to the US health care, the NHS sucks. Take note, Man U didn't send Rooney to Manchester General to cure his ankle problems, they sent him to Oregon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt Kije Posted December 23, 2010 Report Share Posted December 23, 2010 Us health care, Is it universal I'll dig up some American right comments on our health system for you to peruse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter T Posted December 23, 2010 Report Share Posted December 23, 2010 Take note, Man U didn't send Rooney to Manchester General to cure his ankle problems, they sent him to Oregon. And they did a good job to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt Kije Posted December 23, 2010 Report Share Posted December 23, 2010 Take a look stallard12 https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=tsI9mtBAHd84DHdNQhO17Pg# As to comments made by Right wing Senators, One of the funniest had to be about Dr Stephan Hawking, "If he relied on the NHS he would be dead," Mr Hawking does rely on the NHS, There are so many but another good one was nobody gets treated on the NHS when they get to 71 as it costs to much. I can get alot more, but living in the States you have probably heard more than me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stallard12 Posted December 23, 2010 Report Share Posted December 23, 2010 Please, we were having a reasonable discussion, don't let us get into specific statements by politicians, it'll only degenerate into comedy. Can't resist though - by Nancy Pelosi, (the epitome of liberalism), pleading for support for the 'Obama Care' bill, - " Let us just go ahead and pass this bill, so that we can find out what's in it" !!!!! Funny aren't they, or is it pathetic? Let me just talk as someone who has experience on both sides of the Atlantic. The American system is first class and is it universal? Yes, to all but the drop-outs and illegal aliens. I find that most people discussing America have very little actual knowledge of the everyday country. Believe me, the media only informs people of facts that enhance that outlets personal preference. Unfortunately, being ensconced in a liberal enviroment, it's not surprising that the bias from the news services in the UK is left leaning. 80% of the employed Americans have employer provided private insurance. There is a 'Cobra' plan whereby anyone who loses their job is guranteed continueing insurance for up to 6 months. At 65 everyone becomes eligible for government health coverage. So the only people requiring Obama Care are the 20% of 'proffesional' unemployed and illegal aliens. This is where 90% of the support for liberal Democrats comes from, so they pander to them. The majority of Americans will be worse off under Obama Care and the cost is prohibitive, that's why 80% of the country let it be known that they don't want it - it's nothing to do with right wing Senators or their opinions. I could go on and highlight the individual outrages in this particular legislation, such as being fined $2000 per year if you don't sign up, plus the so called 'death panel' clauses etc, but I've gone on long enough. By the way, on global warming, I am a retired engineer with a BSc in Mech Eng with forty years experience as an Engineering Project Manager whose duties involved analyzing data and projecting probabilities. I have studied the available data and I belive that it is a hoax. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt Kije Posted December 23, 2010 Report Share Posted December 23, 2010 Good post I'm an engineer, I work mainly on power stations, I have seen data and I don't think it is Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted December 24, 2010 Report Share Posted December 24, 2010 The American dream is fine, until you wake up into the reality of the nightmare! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fugtifino Posted December 24, 2010 Report Share Posted December 24, 2010 The American system is first class and is it universal? Yes, to all but the drop-outs and illegal aliens. That's not, er, universal then, is it? Over here, we take care of our drop-outs and illegal aliens (just ask around these boards for evidence - but it might take a while) as if they were our own. The NHS isn't based on the ability to pay for the treatment you need. If that isn't what you want, there's always BUPA, this gives us the best of both worlds. I know which one I'd rather live in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter T Posted December 24, 2010 Report Share Posted December 24, 2010 No Fug, the best of both worlds is when you are on the NHS and get sent to BUPA/Spire for an operation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonymailman2 Posted December 24, 2010 Author Report Share Posted December 24, 2010 The American dream is fine, until you wake up into the reality of the nightmare! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted December 24, 2010 Report Share Posted December 24, 2010 You can say that again - "WE take care of our illegal aliens" - that's why they pass through every other country in the World to get here! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazj Posted December 24, 2010 Report Share Posted December 24, 2010 We also take care of our criminals; who recieve a better standard of living and heatlhcare and sustinance than a lot of our old people and war pensioners. This country really has got things the wrong way round. At least in America they still get rid of some of their scum so it doesn't cost their taxpayers to keep them breathing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted December 24, 2010 Report Share Posted December 24, 2010 Not quite Baz, they tend to leave them languishing in death row for at least 10 years or so, THEN kill 'em - and for some strange reason, the crime rate remains one of the highest in the world - guess it must be down to envy?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stallard12 Posted December 24, 2010 Report Share Posted December 24, 2010 That's right, envy. I have 39 years UK and 35 years USA - you couldn't drag me out of here with a team of wild horses. I can buy a luxury house with a pool for GBP 100,000. A steak dinner with wine at a fancy restaraunt for GBP 5.00 A luxury car, American or Japanese for GBP 13,000. Gas for GBP 1.25 per GALLON. Rent a Holiday Inn room for GBP 40.00 per night. Rent a car for GBP 15.00 per day etc. etc etc. As usual, a little knowledge is a dangerous thing. Most people get a media driven steryotype and believe it - like, lots of people in the States believe that all Englishmen wear bowler hats and carry rolled umbrellas. America does not have the death penalty, some States do and some don't and the crime rate is higher in every single State that doesn't have it. Criminals are on death row for extended periods of time by choice. Their lawyers prolong the procedure not the government. They can drop all appeals whenever they like and request immediate action. I worked in the petro-chemical field and I can tell you that US regulations are more stringent than anywhere in the world - are you aware that European cars, including Mercedes, cannot be sold in the States without major improvements in the emission systems, yet y'all moan about US pollution !!!! I go back to envy - I always find that 'outsiders', out of envy and desparation, always try to nitpick America with uninformed and tabloid obtained mis-information. It's strange really because Americans generally have no malice for Europe and treat Europeans with respect, while on the other hand Europeans seem to enjoy maliciously denegrating the most charitable and giving nation in the world - check that out, you'll find that it's true. One final point on global warming. Consider this, from the mid 1800's (the Industrial Revolution) until 1960, industrial pollution was at it's ugliest peak - pollutants belching from chimneys all over the world for 150 years, but no glaciers melted and the earths temerature naever wavered outside the norm -- how come ????? OK, that's it, time to abandon this topic. I'm officially now starting my Christmas and a verey Merry Christmas to y'all - not a happy holiday , a Merry Christmas, maybe we can cover that in the NEw Year, !!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter T Posted December 24, 2010 Report Share Posted December 24, 2010 Merry Christmas to you and yours. look forward to your return. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted December 24, 2010 Report Share Posted December 24, 2010 Yippi ki yay! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wingnut Posted December 25, 2010 Report Share Posted December 25, 2010 Obs Excellent post Stall, very interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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