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Geoff

 

Well the 10 year period was if only £75,000 being available each year from the road safety budget. It was viewed as a "worst case" scenario. That's why the council is looking for funding from other sources so that it can be rolled out over a much shorter time scale. Most local authorities are managing to do it over 3 years. It is recognised that faster and wider implementation reduces costs and increases compliance. So given the high rate of return on community benefit for expenditure it is very worth while.

 

And of course it is very popular with consituents, See :-

 

http://www.20splentyforus.org.uk/BriefingSheets/20mph_are_popular_vote_winners.pdf

 

Best regards

 

Rod

Rod, why do you keep trotting out that survey? It's doesn;t support your appeals for a widespread 20mph limit, it supports a 20mph limi9t on residential streets. We've already established that to you, "residential" is ludicrously any street where there's a house, that is not what people understand as residential.

 

But again, this is something you're trying to regurgitate having lost that argument months ago as if we all have the memory of a fish.

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To Wahl and observer

 

Strikes me a new way of thinking is needed in the town hall.

 

I think that you already have "new thinking". The idea that we can build more and more roads so that more and more people can drive everywhere for their personal mobility is rather 20th century!

 

The idea of 20mph being appropriate for residentaial streets recognises that if we are to maximise that capacity for traffic on our already saturated network then we have to produce conditions that support walking, cycling and public transport as well as motor cars.

 

To Fatshaft

 

Of course the actual accelration is but a small part of a journey, whereas travelling in a lower gear at 20mph will more than outweigh the savings from the loss of accelaration, but then that's not quite such a friendly soundbite eh Rod?

 

You obviously did not read the article from the Telegraph which I pointed you towards. This demonstrated that on balance driving at a steady 20mph used no more fuel than at 30mph.

 

To Pete T

 

But only the gullible believe him.zzzzzzzzzz

 

I don't think anyone "believes" me. They just respond to the facts and evidence.

 

To Fatshaft

 

Which unfortunately seems to include the entire council, and that's who counts.

 

 

and the council in Lancashire, and Liverpool,and Sheffield, and Islington, and Camden, and Bristol, and York, and Middlesbrough, and Brighton & Hove, and Portsmouth, and Newcastle, and Edinburgh,and bath and North East Somerset, and most of the towns in Germany and the Netherlands and Belgium and Norway and .......and the MEPs in the European parliament, and the Association of Directors of Public Health and the National Audit Commission, and the Dept for Transport,......

 

To Baz J

 

Once we get a council of independents elected all this nonsense can be reversed and the bill sent to the 20's nonsense brigade

 

 

 

I will watch out for that day. Mind you I expect that the independents will be from a wide range of political views and will probably asssociate themselves into different groups based on common opinions. They might even form "parties". However experience from current politicians throughout the UK is that this is supported by the right, the left and the centre. Its probably likely that a council of indepenedents would find that the most common beliefe they have is in implementing 20mph for residential roads.

 

A Happy New Year to you all.

 

 

Rod

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I will watch out for that day. Mind you I expect that the independents will be from a wide range of political views and will probably asssociate themselves into different groups based on common opinions. They might even form "parties". However experience from current politicians throughout the UK is that this is supported by the right, the left and the centre. Its probably likely that a council of indepenedents would find that the most common beliefe they have is in implementing 20mph for residential roads.

 

A Happy New Year to you all.

 

 

Rod

:roll:
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The train operators in UK are bare faced robbers.

Here one can travel in the comfort of an aircon train from Alexandria to Cairo, a distance of around 220/225km for only 56el which is the equivilent of £6.

And if you know where to look you can go Warrington to Glasgow or Liverpool to London for a quid! (Megatrain)

 

Nothing cheaper than £7 from Warrington to Manchester of course.

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  • 1 month later...

An update

 

In its recent campaign The Times has launched an 8-point manifesto for making "Cities fit for Cycling". Point 6 is :-

 

"20mph should become the default speed limit in residential areas where there are no cycle lanes."

 

See http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/public/cyclesafety/contact/

 

Earlier this week, Manchester City Council asked its officers to prepare a feasbility report on all its residential roads having a default of 20mph. The resolution had cross-party suppport.

 

Also this week the government issued a new consultation on making Traffic Orders (used to change speed limits) easier and cheaper for local authorities to use.

 

 

Best regards

 

 

Rod

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If "the default" limit becomes 20mph, will it be possible to tear down all these road signs on the pavements, that form an obstacle course for blind folk; and the Council might get some cash back for the scrap metal! :wink:

 

If you are refering to "warning" signs then many are not required if there is a 20mph limit.

 

If you are refering to 20mph repeater signs then these are usually put on lamp posts. However in future Traffic Signage Regulation changes will allow the local authority to use carriageway roundels instead. All part of the government making it easier and cheaper to set 20mph speed limits.

 

Note that by "default" it does not imply changing the "built-up" national speed limit to 20mph, but simply that any residential road would have a 20mph speed limit set as a default with all the usual resuirements, ie either repeaters signs (for a 20mph limit)or regular "traffic calming features"(for a 20mph zone) . The new signage regulations class a repeater sign or a carriageway roundel as a "traffic calming feature".

 

Best regards

 

 

Rod

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So basically that's a 'No' to Obs idea of less signs being needed then is it ?

 

Obviously if/when Warrington starts to implement your 20 mph rollout (over 10 years) then we will see more signs popping up everwhere so as to advise all the motorists who will not be aware.

 

Ahhh.. I just got it... they will mostly be placed on lamp posts unless it is a road off a main arterial route whereby they will have to be placed at entrances/exits of all the other roads on the pavements where there is no other alternative so as to advise motorist who are unaware or not familiar with Warrington :unsure:

 

I hope you don't mind Wolfie but I am 'borrowing' your gun :wink:headshot-suicide.gif

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Hi Dizzie

 

Answers in bold!

 

So basically that's a 'No' to Obs idea of less signs being needed then is it ?

 

You are correct

 

Obviously if/when Warrington starts to implement your 20 mph rollout (over 10 years) then we will see more signs popping up everwhere so as to advise all the motorists who will not be aware.

 

Not just mine, and 10 years was the maximum period. The Scrutiny Panel asked officers to find alternative funding so that it could be rolled out far quicker than that. And yes it is necessary for signs to exist for it to be a mandatory and enforceble 20mph limit.

 

Ahhh.. I just got it... they will mostly be placed on lamp posts unless it is a road off a main arterial route whereby they will have to be placed at entrances/exits of all the other roads on the pavements where there is no other alternative so as to advise motorist who are unaware or not familiar with Warrington :unsure:

 

Correct

 

I hope you don't mind Wolfie but I am 'borrowing' your gun

 

I wonder if its the sight of a small sign every 100m or so that troubles you so much or travelling at 20mph or less on residential roads?

 

Regards

 

 

Rod

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Thank you for giving me an alternative spelling to my boring name Rod..... and neither of the two trouble me actually as I always drive carefully and within the set limits or slower where I feel it necessary.

 

What does trouble me is people thinking that 20mph limits is the answer to everything and it will make the streets and roads a safer place to cycle, walk, drive or whatever.

 

Maybe you should have sat on my road yesterday for example.

 

Ours has signs saying it is a speed enforcement zone although I have never seen any enforcement carried out on it (30 mph), it was also icy, it's dangerous and has a small wooden fence stopping people plunging into the canal, it has many adjoining side roads, a school and shopping area nearby, many pedestrians and kids out and about BUT DOES OR DID ALL THAT MAKE ANY DIFERENCE TO THE IDIOTS DRIVING FASTER THAN THEY SHOULD YESTERDAY (OR ANY OTHER DAY OF THE YEAR ACTUALLY)... well sadly Rod NO it didn't and NO it doesn't and I very much doubt that any un-enforcable 20pmh limits will either.

 

It's not just our road as others were saying exactly the same about their roads too today.

 

Sorry but that's just the way is.... Idiots will always drive like idiods regardless .

 

My regards to you of course too Rod as I realise it is something that you personally believe in and feel very strongly about especially as you have fought for it for so long.

 

Alas as hard as I try I, like many others it would appear, still seem to see the obvious pitfalls and the probable overall negative impact or lack of effect it will have (not to mention the conflicting stats and info of course) rather than any of the possitives you and your group can see in all reality.

 

Sorry and regards again....

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