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One objector referred to a DfT circular, and the report says "DfT Circular 05/99 has been superseded by Circular 01/06 which included new guidance on the provision and use of 20mph speed limits encouraging Local Authorities to consider implementing 20mph speed limits where appropriate."

 

http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/roadsafety/speedmanagement/dftcircular106/dftcircular106.pdf

 

It actually says "Local speed limits of 20 mph are, however, encouraged in situations where there is a particular risk to vulnerable road users."

 

"20 mph zones are predominantly used in urban areas ? both town centres and residential areas ? and in the vicinity of schools. It is generally recommended that they

be imposed over an area consisting of several roads.

 

"The purpose of this type of area-wide traffic management is to create conditions in which drivers naturally drive at around 20 mph because of the general nature of the location, or as a result of traffic calming measures being put in place."

 

(Essentially, only do it where speeds are already low...)

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Isnt it beign missed that the pilot noted a drop in traffic along the routes and that somehow is being used as evidence of lower injuries etc. Did the cars just vanish or perhaps did they go elsewhere in which case the problem will just be moved not solved.

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Nobody will listen to any arguments against the proposals Adrian. Rod King and his lycra army have convinced the council that it is the right way to go and they will hear no bad words against the scheme.

 

They are trying to push everybody back a hundred years without providing any alternatives to people using their cars. Bus travel is ridiculously expensive in this town and as for using bikes; well you've seen the standards of some of the idiots that ride bikes in this town!!

 

No, we drivers will all just have to comply with the law whilst the law breaking cyclists continue to travel on footpaths and ignore the red traffic lights which obviously don't have to apply to them anyway as well as dodging the dumb kids who will continue to walk out in front of cars because they now think there will be no problem if the cars are only driving at 20.... heaven forbid they actually teach the kids some road sense

 

Maybe they should be taught such things as road awareness from an early age.....even nursery level....what about that idea Rod! :wink:

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Isnt it beign missed that the pilot noted a drop in traffic along the routes and that somehow is being used as evidence of lower injuries etc. Did the cars just vanish or perhaps did they go elsewhere in which case the problem will just be moved not solved.

 

These days, problems are NEVER solved, just alternatives found. That way there are no repercussions on decision makers. :roll:

Although the nodding donkeys will see that as a success.

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A solution to all the controversy would be this.

 

Make all roads 20 MPH with the exception of motorways.

 

Make all motorways 55 MPH.

 

Restrict all cars so that a top speed of 65 MPH is all they can reach.

 

All cyclists to undergo compulsory training.

 

All cyclists to have their cycles checked on a yearly basis to ensure road worthiness.

 

All cyclists to pay an annual fee to cover their use of the road and make it compulsory to have at least third party insurance coverage.

 

Any pedestrians not crossing at a designated crossing to be fined on the spot for jaywalkng. If children then their parents fined.

 

but maybe that would be going tooo far :twisted:

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The 20mph problem is simple to solve.

 

If the road is classified i.e. A or B then it stays the same.

 

If its used by busses it stays as is.

 

If the emergency services designate it as a priortiy road (like they did with Long lane when consulted) then it stays as it is.

 

All key arterial routes are increased to a minimum of 40mph. Traffic at peak will limit it anyway but off peak why not have a higher speed limit.

 

Bikers have to be licesesed. Saw one dodge a tram this mornign due to going through a red light. 2/3rd of cyclists dont pay any attention to road rules, so they should have a points system like a driver. Compulsory TP insurance as well. They can still hit pedestrians and the pedestrian woudl have limited recourse.

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Adrian

 

I think you misunderstand.

 

20mph is not "the problem". Its "the solution".

 

But thanks for your contribution to the debate.

 

Rod

 

Pity you are just a one trick Pony though Rod and only contribute here and nowhere else.....

 

The justifications for the 20mph limits are obviously made using flawed and inconclusive data - as can be seen by the various counter arguments on here.

 

So do you teach your nursery kids road awareness Rod? you never answered before :wink:

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Adrian

 

I think you misunderstand.

 

20mph is not "the problem". Its "the solution".

 

But thanks for your contribution to the debate.

 

Rod

LOL. If it (and you) wasn't so sad it'd be funny.

 

Although this is a small sample size, every single poster in this thread bar yourself is against your ideas, do you not get just the slightest inkling that maybe you are running contrary to the wishes of the majority of the road users in Warrington?

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I would have thought that teaching kids as young as nursery age about road awarness and safety would have been part of the curriculum. The earlier kids learn then the more chance of them 'understanding' the dangers providing of course it continues to be instilled upon them throughout junior/senior school and by their parents.

 

Like said many many times already though the 20 mph is not the be all and end all solution as it will not be enforced and where some drivers don't stick to 30 they certainly wont stick to 20 :?

 

Speed bumps or traffic calming on know danger roads or even better residents with 'stingers' may have more of an effect :wink:

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Adrian

 

NO

 

Ostrich Syndrome. :roll:

Of course Peter, because if rodk actually got involved in rational debate, he'd have to admit that his ideas are completely out of kilter with the majority wishes, far better to simply repeat ad infinitum that he's right and everyone else is wrong.
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Adrian said :-

 

Although this is a small sample size, every single poster in this thread bar yourself is against your ideas, do you not get just the slightest inkling that maybe you are running contrary to the wishes of the majority of the road users in Warrington?

 

Adrian is wrong. Many of the posters on this thread and other threads have agreed that 20 mph is the right speed limit for residential roads.

 

In addition to this I think that if you were to look at the wishes of all road users then they would be in agreement.

 

The only contentious issue seems to be which residential roads are justified in having a speed limit greater than 20mph. I think that it should be determined by the way the particular road is used (ie pedestrians, school children, shoppers) etc, whilst others think that there should be no such consideration.

 

Best regards

 

 

Rod

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Fatshaft

 

I don't know how I could ever have mixed the two of you up. My apologies!

 

Please assume that I was referring to yourself instead.

 

And if Adrian is concerned at my attributing your words to him, then my apologies to Adrian as well.

 

Regards

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Many of the posters on this thread and other threads have agreed that 20 mph is the right speed limit for residential roads.

 

and

 

In addition to this I think that if you were to look at the wishes of all road users then they would be in agreement.

 

and

 

The only contentious issue seems to be which residential roads are justified in having a speed limit greater than 20mph. I think that it should be determined by the way the particular road is used (ie pedestrians, school children, shoppers) etc, whilst others think that there should be no such consideration.

 

Rod

 

Don't your three quotes sort of contradict each other ? From what you say then all people agree but most don't :?

 

I would take an overall assumption from all that as showing that most people agree that only certain roads are required to be 20 mph.

 

Guess such an analsys is useful depending on who is using which bit though eh and of course it is late and I am half asleep :lol:

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Dizzy

 

Don't your three quotes sort of contradict each other ? From what you say then all people agree but most don't

 

Well I think the quotes are consistent. Firstly there has been a recognition by many on this forum that they recognise that 20mph is an appropriate limit for "residential" roads. Some refer to these as "truly residential", but lets take that as an acceptance.

 

My second comments was about the views of "all road users". I think its fair to say that this should include users of the roads regardless of their mode of transport.

 

I would take an overall assumption from all that as showing that most people agree that only certain roads are required to be 20 mph.

 

I think you are quite correct there, although there do appear to be the odd person(and I meant that numerically) who doesn't agree with any 20mph limits.

 

 

Guess such an analsys is useful depending on who is using which bit though eh and of course it is late and I am half asleep

 

I hope so.

 

best regards

 

Rod

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Well like I say it is late and I am currently running at about -76mph so I shall try and make sense of that reply tomorrow Rod :?:lol:

 

good luck.... Rod has the habit of trying to confuse in order to convince!

 

I have said that some residential roads may benefit from having 20mph limits; however I am begining to look at the practicalities of it all.

 

Personally I would now air on the side of keeping the minimum to 30 and use education as a tool.

 

As for other road users, Yesterday, I watched in astonishment as an ambulance went down the dual carriageway towards Penketh. It went through the red light as you would expect, but just as it did so, a very big motorbike which was at the front of the queue for the red lights pulled a wheelie from the lights and over took the ambulance at about 80mph........

 

If there were as many motorbikes and cyclists on the roads as there are cars, the accident rate would be about 100 times what it is now because in most cases I have seen; cyclists and bikers are complete and utter numpties when it comes to speed and road awareness...... combine that with dopey, uneducated kids and you have a receipe for disaster....... ban the bikers, get the cyclists insured and taxed and fine the kids for jay walking and you will reduce the accident rates by 50%

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