What's going on?

[observer]

Flood of the century in Pakistan, heat wave of the century in Russia - what's going on?

[fugtifino]

Dunno obs, but whatever it is it's surely nothing to do with what those togawearingmungbeaneatingwindfarmadvocatinghippies have been saying about climate change and stuff.

 

Then there's things like this:

 

http://tinyurl.com/328s9j5

 

Which are completely natural and ordered and there's nothing we can do anyway.

 

Those scientists have got this one seriously wrong and it's up to us non-science types to show them the error of their ways.

 

In the meantime, we can carry on doing what we do and it will have no effect whatsoever on our climate.

[Lt Kije]

On the other hand the scientists and the hippies could have it right, and it could be global warming caused by us

[observer]

.. over to you Asp!

[asperity]

The proof will be when we're broke and freezing.

[Lt Kije]

It will be to late then

[asperity]

Which is why Call me Dave needs to sack Huhne, stop wasting our money on bird scarers and start building some new generating stations be they gas, coal or nuclear!!

[Lt Kije]

I have got no problem with nuclear, The trouble with coal is we have to import the coal

[kevofaz25]

Imported coal?- we are sat on plenty of it

[Peter T]

Flood of the century in Pakistan, heat wave of the century in Russia - what's going on?

 

Its early days yet, the century is only 10 years old.

[asperity]

I have got no problem with nuclear, The trouble with coal is we have to import the coal

 

We have only scratched the surface of our coal reserves

[Lt Kije]

Imported coal?- we are sat on plenty of it

 

Most of the coal for are coal fired power stations is imported, The costs of reopening are coal mines would be astronomical, How much do you want to pay for your energy

[asperity]

It's all economics, when it becomes economical to mine our own coal again it will be done. Simples. What isn't sound economics is to throw money at windmills that won't produce the energy we need.

[Lt Kije]

I agree asperity but their is more to it than that, because we closed are mines and did not moth ball them they are flooded and in some cases filled in. In effect you would have to start again, So the cost of energy would have to rise an inordinate amount for it to become economical. The mines shut because we could import coal cheaper from South Africa and Australia than we could mine it are selves.

 

Ps

You can not reopen flooded mines

[observer]

No need, they've already started "open cast" mining in the UK: and yes; we're sat on loads of it!

[Lt Kije]

Sorry Obs most of the UK's coal is to deep for open cast, and the one's that are open are small and do not produce enough, and it to expensive

[asperity]

Reports of the death of UK coal mining appear to be premature. Here is just one of Britains mining companies:

 

http://www.ukcoal.com/dm-locations

[observer]

So Kyje, yer just start digging new mines and creating employment as a consequence.

[Lt Kije]

I never said it was dead There are not enough mines, and the coal they produce is to expensive by a long way. Also alot of British coal is very is of a low quality (smog producing) and has to be treated before it can be used on a power station adding to the expense. As long a South Africa produce coal,we will never be able to compete on price.

 

We should have never of shut are coal mines, at the time all the power stations were owned by the government who should have said buy British only, As per usual they went for the cheap option and killed the industry. No one in their right mind would put in the capital investment needed to bring the coal industry back, when you can buy abroad for far less. The Uk should be self sufficient in energy, We are relying on the French to build are new nuclear power stations and the South Africans to fuel are coal ones

[observer]

Of course we should strive for self sufficiency (regardless of the market costs) - why? Cos there will come a time(s) in this volatile world when resources become depleted, more expensive and ultimately unobtainable. Those who rely on external supply will be ripped off, blackmailed and ultimately starved. So, if we ever do get politicians and electorates that can see further than their noses, past the next election; we'll get long term self sufficiency plans in place.

[Lt Kije]

Back to subject

 

It would be very hard to dig a new mine near an old mine, as you would have alot of problems with water from the flooded mines. Yes it could be done but you would need more pumps so adding to the costs. This was pointed out to the government by British Coal at the time, They wanted to moth ball the mines (keep the pumps running) This did happen at a few mines but most were filled and aloud to flood. So are already expensive coal would cost even more if you were to start digging near old mines. And the old mines tend to be where the coal is. Short sighted government

[observer]

Of course it was short sighted, but we are where we are - and if we have to pay for preparing for our long term future - so be it.

[Peter T]

Scargill's fault. He wanted his moment of glory.

[observer]

Errm NO; Maggie's fault - she wanted to destroy the NUM; Scargill actually under-estimated the number of pits that she would close. Back to Extreme Weather Events: seems the "experts" are saying the Russian and Pakistan situations are linked to a split in the jet stream, which is distorting weather patterns.

[Bazj]

Scargill was a prat..... nuff said