observer Posted July 31, 2010 Report Share Posted July 31, 2010 A guy was stabbed during an arguement with his 19 yr old girlfriend, and was allowed to bleed to death in front of her 25 yr old sister, who refused to call for an ambulance. They were charged with manslaughter - the 19 yr old got 5 years in a young offenders institute, the 25 yr old got 4 years in prison. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wahl Posted July 31, 2010 Report Share Posted July 31, 2010 perhaps same should apply to doctors who do not treat patients with meningitis? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazj Posted July 31, 2010 Report Share Posted July 31, 2010 perhaps same should apply to doctors who do not treat patients with meningitis? Eh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfie Posted August 1, 2010 Report Share Posted August 1, 2010 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt Kije Posted August 1, 2010 Report Share Posted August 1, 2010 Both should have been charged with murder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted August 1, 2010 Author Report Share Posted August 1, 2010 The point is, murderers are now getting away with less than ten years in prison - so hardly a disincentive anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt Kije Posted August 1, 2010 Report Share Posted August 1, 2010 The point is, murderers are now getting away with less than ten years in prison - so hardly a disincentive anymore They were not charged with Murder, and without knowing all the facts it is hard to comment. We need to know why they were charged with Manslaughter as opposed to murder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted August 1, 2010 Author Report Share Posted August 1, 2010 Manslaughter is merely a bargaining devise nowadays, plead guilty to manslaughter = lesser sentence = no murder trial. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt Kije Posted August 2, 2010 Report Share Posted August 2, 2010 In some case's you are correct, Do you have all the facts in this case Obs are you just assuming that?s what happened Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted August 2, 2010 Author Report Share Posted August 2, 2010 ceefax Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt Kije Posted August 2, 2010 Report Share Posted August 2, 2010 So ceefax told you the charge was manslaughter because their had been a plee bargin, or were you just assuming thats what happened Their are lots of reasons why charges are changed Obs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted August 2, 2010 Author Report Share Posted August 2, 2010 Didn't assume anything in this case, that was a broad comment about current plea bargaining Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt Kije Posted August 2, 2010 Report Share Posted August 2, 2010 Manslaughter is merely a bargaining devise nowadays, plead guilty to manslaughter = lesser sentence = no murder trial. This is pure assumption on your part Obs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazj Posted August 2, 2010 Report Share Posted August 2, 2010 Kije, can I ask; if someone is walking down the street and for no reason, another bloke comes up and headbutts him; resulting in him falling to the ground, banging his head and dying of that blow to the head caused by the kerb or whatever...... would you class that as manslaughter or murder? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt Kije Posted August 2, 2010 Report Share Posted August 2, 2010 If it what you said was fact and their was no reason for the headbut its murder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazj Posted August 2, 2010 Report Share Posted August 2, 2010 If it what you said was fact and their was no reason for the headbut its murder. Unfortunately not, by clever jiggery pokery, the defence lawyer would argue it was manslaughter as the victim died from a blow to the head caused by impact with the kerb, not the headbutt. This was based on a case a good few years ago now in Warrington, where a lad was walking home after dropping his girlfriend home. He happened to walk past a group of youths who were just standing around near a chippy. one of the youths thought it would be a good idea to hit the young man. Following the blow, the lad hit his head on a low wall; the blow from which killed him. The lad who hit him got a few years for manslaughter..... the wonders of the British justice system that could jail someone for what you yourself have said would be murder, for the lesser crime of manslaughter. The lad was the victim of an unprovoked attack and paid the price for being in the wrong place at the wrong time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt Kije Posted August 3, 2010 Report Share Posted August 3, 2010 The defense lawyer was doing his job, Perhaps if the prosecution lawyer would have been up to the task then their might have been a different result. That is one of the problems with having an adversarial system it comes down to the skill of the lawyer. That is why the system comes out with travesties of justice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted August 3, 2010 Author Report Share Posted August 3, 2010 This issue seems to revolve around "intent" - but an intent to assault, always carries the possibility of maiming or death - but we're forgetting: the prisons are full to the brim - so expediency rules. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt Kije Posted August 3, 2010 Report Share Posted August 3, 2010 I fear you are right Obs, We need to spend more money on prisons Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legion Posted August 3, 2010 Report Share Posted August 3, 2010 But I'm sure you all know that the diffrence between Murder and Manslaughter is the intent of the outcome to your actions. so the two previous cases are entirely different if you ask me. The first example I would argue IS murder, in the fact that they knew their later action of 'inaction' would likely lead to a death. I'm assuming that the second one the effects of the injury would have caused death despite any intervention from the perpetrator had they have remorsefully tried (not suggesting that they did). So therefore Manslaughter as it is unlikely the person throwing the punch actualy intended or was prepared to allow the victim to die. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt Kije Posted August 3, 2010 Report Share Posted August 3, 2010 I'm assuming that the second one the effects of the injury would have caused death despite any intervention from the perpetrator had they have remorsefully tried (not suggesting that they did). So therefore Manslaughter as it is unlikely the person throwing the punch actually intended or was prepared to allow the victim to die. I would agree with that summing up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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