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Ian Tomlinson


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You yourself use sweeping comments to infer that nearly all bobbies are saints, but surely my inference can only be aimed at officers who have done wrong. There have been many,many times when officers have been way out of line and "retired on health grounds" with a full pension. Adept at using the rules you see, just like politicians etc. There are thousands of police officers every year caught speeding but only about 1 in every 200 gets a ticket. How is this right when even the official figures show that only about 25% of these officers were responding to an emergency at the time? You should never be above the law.

 

As for looking at other countries deplorable acts for justification of our own failings, well it simply doesn't stack up as a reasonable defence. I imagine France, Germany, Italy and Brazil were rightly appalled by the British Police's disgraceful actions concerning the De Menezes attempted whitewash.

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PJ, Was that latter statement down to the police or the Government?

 

I would say those who shot an unarmed, innocent man and then lied through their teeth on oath to protect themselves and colleagues Peter, you decide.

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Then there was Hillsborough.... a nice little teensy weensy bit of a cover up by the Police there too if I remember? Didn't the cop in overall control on the day sort of just happen to retire on medical grounds on full pension???

 

Delroy Smellie.... a fine figure of a Police Officer. Bitch slapped a tiny woman who wouldn't stop shouting......

 

oh and wasn't there the custody sergeant who thought it macho to beat up a drunken woman who wouldn't "comply" whilst in custody?

 

we can go back to the 1970's....Liddle Towers (remember him? If you were a Punk Rocker you may remember the Angelic Upstarts record; "Who killed Liddle Towers"....) Liddle died after a night in police custody......hmmmm.... The verdict at his inquest was "Justifiable Homicide" which was a very strange verdict. Taken literally, it would mean that the police intended to kill Liddle Towers and were justified in so doing!!!

 

Remember the Police violence towards the strikers at Grunwicks also in the late seventies? The coppers took every opportunity to batter the strikers and drag them out and give them a good kicking....

 

The obvious problem here and now for the Police is CCTV and camera phones..... they have been known to ensure that CCTV cameras "weren't working" in the areas of their little faux pas' in the past...Hillsboro, Stockwell etc..... where they struggle is when members of the public film them beating people up and using excessive violence and force towards often small weak looking protestors and women.... They have however been known to demand film and cameras from law abiding members of the public who just happen to take photos of their slight indescretions!

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You are right, it is only ever a minority of wrong doers in any walk of life and at one time, those around them would have probably done something about it. Nowadays, people seem to have had a common sense bypass because 'the system' says that CRB checks etc. will catch these people. They don't! and if those in authority continue to ignore warnings from those who do use their instincts and report worries about certain individuals, things can only get worse.

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Said several times before, policeman are recruited from the public. Apart from the obvious and proven neer do wells they will be no better and no worse than the people in your street.

 

Happy days

 

Correct Harry.

 

However, It seems that most people are bigoted to some extent.

 

A dislike of Policemen is common, along with Gypsies, Teachers, Politicians and Scousers. :wink:

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A CRB check will only pick people up who already have a record. I do not think their is a system in place anywhere in the World that can pick up people who intend to do wrong but as yet have not :!:

 

Indeed, but presumably a CRB check was carried out on the young man who photographed and abused young children in a nursery (news item last week), but when a mother felt uneasy and raised the issue with the Nursery, she was told that nothing could be done!! This defies common sense and surely discreet supervision should have been put in place immediately.

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Indeed, but presumably a CRB check was carried out on the young man who photographed and abused young children in a nursery (news item last week), but when a mother felt uneasy and raised the issue with the Nursery, she was told that nothing could be done!! This defies common sense and surely discreet supervision should have been put in place immediately.

 

Indeed their was one complaint against him, but alot of other people found him to be polite, and very good, So the question is do you investigate one complaint, which was not actually a complaint just someone who was uneasy :?: and if you do how much would that cost and how many people would you employ to do it and how would pay :?:

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Keeping a discreet eye on someone doesn't cost anyone anything. Women in particular have instincts about people, something to do with protecting their young I think. I know that in the past I felt uncomfortable about my son being around one particular person so I always made sure I was there if the person was going to be there too.

 

If someone had kept a judicial eye on the young man in question, perhaps his abuse would have been discovered much sooner. After all, the rules say that children must always be believed if they make a complaint, so if the children were too young to complain themselves, the adult's worries should have been treated seriously.

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Women in particular have instincts about people, something to do with protecting their young I think.

 

ahh but remember the last pedo ring they uncovered had 5 women in it all taking photos and abusing the kids in their care.....

 

Execution for kiddy fiddlers is the only way because they will get out one day and they will reoffend.... no question. Dead fiddlers can't fiddle :wink:

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So how would you improve the system Peter :?: How do you catch people before they have broken the law :?:

 

Up to your usual tricks Lt? :wink:

 

We are reaping the seeds of the last 50 years where the rules and boundaries have gradually been eroded.

Discipline and moral standards hardly exist any more, so a lot of things happen because society turns a blind eye to what goes on as they are too interested in themselves.

 

What used to be the exception years ago, is now becoming the norm.

 

When Politicians, the Church and Society wake up to the real world and start doing something, things "might" improve. Until then, it will be the same old, the same old. :roll: Getting out of Europe might be a start and allow Law and Order to return to this country.

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Pedophiles have been around a lot longer than 50 years Peter, The Catholic church has had them for longer than that :wink: You criticize CRB checks, fair enough, but where is your solution. Can you definitively say their are more perverts around now than 50 years ago, things like that 50 years ago were wrongly kept behind closed doors. An improvement in society is that more people come forward and report the crimes, And with improvement in media more people get to know about the crimes.

 

50 years ago Peter, Things were not better, People just suffered in silence behind closed doors, and you seem to be harking for the good old days, where people suffered in silence and ignorance was bliss :!::cry:

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Lt. I didn't realise that you were as old as me. How do you know what it was like 50 years ago?

 

I never said it didn't happen!!!!

And yes, the fact that the sharing of the information via the internet proves that it has got worse. 50 years ago people didn't have a PC or laptop to share information.

 

You can never stop everything from happening, but a deterrent helps.

Sadly in your modern liberal world, there are no longer any deterrents.

 

Because of the soft life in prison, offenders didn't mind going back, which led to overcrowding and latterly the release of rapists and murderers.

Human Rights where people can hide from punishment.

The courts, where the judicial system supports the criminal and not the victim.

Politicians straight from Uni who know nothing about the real world.

 

Yes, give me 50 years ago as we didn't have all this garbage and people who think the EU is wonderful, but all it is doing is dismantling the foundations of OUR country.

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Peter I think you are wrong. I feel there is simply more awareness of abuse now rather than more occasions of it. The media report these things now whereas way back when abused children would not be believed and usually punished, threatened or made to be quiet. There was nowhere for an abused child to go for help unlike today so things have if anything improved. There have always been monsters in our society its just not a taboo to out them anymore.

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I would agree in part with both PJ and Peter.... (god this is getting confusing!)

 

50 years ago kids were probably easier to keep quiet whilst being abused as they didn't have the outlets to report the abuse as they have today..... similarly, these days it is easy and cheap enough for the paedo to jump on a plane to Thailand and go and abuse some kids far away and then email their mates back home with the photos......

 

A no win situation. Execute the guilty and solve part of the problem....simples!

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