Sacred Cows?

[observer]

In these dark days of fiscal austerity, are there any "no go" areas for service cuts? The decision by CFA to downgrade Birchwood Fire Station from a full time, 24/7 fire engine, to a part time, "Trumpton" set up, is obviously animating local residents and politicians. In the good old days: when Warrington had it's own Fire Service, it had 3 full time fire engines and a retained fire engine - it now has only two - since then, the Town has got bigger and so to the risks; BUT them days we also had our own Police Force, we had several hospitals - we now have half an hospital, with the other half at Widnes - so is this progress and the more efficient use of resources or are we being short changed on essential services?

[Peter T]

The balance sheet is the important thing, people are obviously expendable.

It's all about business rather than providing a service.

 

PS. We only get to know part pf the problems. For the truth you need to speak to the men with the hoses.

[Bill]

I thought we had several fire stations, Winwick Road, Birchwood and possibly Stockton Heath?

 

Bill

[Peter T]

I thought we had several fire stations, Winwick Road, Birchwood and possibly Stockton Heath?

 

Bill

 

And is that enough, given the population of Warrington and the surrounding areas?

Do you really want part-time firemen manning Birchwood and St. Heath?

 

Your house is on fire, you are trapped upstairs, and you have to wait for the fire brigade to respond to their beepers and then get to the station?

 

Not a happy scenario in IMO.

[observer]

Bill. S/Heath was there in the good old days too; with a Retained Pump; before Birchwood existed or the N/Town developments, Warrington had 3 full time pumps and a retained pump, for a much smaller area and population. Since those days, we've had M/Way and N/Town developments, thus increasing overall risk. Arguably, the current Birchwood pump is the 3rd pump from Winwick road, sited closer to the Birchwood area.

[byrdy]

In the good old days: when Warrington had it's own Fire Service, it had 3 full time fire engines and a retained fire engine - it now has only two

There's still 2 at Stockton Heath fire station alone.

[Dizzy]

Warrington and Birchwood stations are 'whole time' stations ie manned 24 hours. Stockton Heath is 'day crew' ie manned during the day only but they are on call at night. Never knew that

 

The fire service website is really good and lists all incidents that the various stations have been called too.... Birchwood seems to have the highest number of incidents and performance detailed than the other two stations although I guess that could be as they are nearer to the motorway ??

 

Interesting site anyway although as dishy as they all are in uniform I hope that I never have to call them for help

 

http://www.cheshirefire.gov.uk/aboutus.asp?menuid=1573

[observer]

Just to put the two systems into perspective: full time crews from Warrington or Birchwood would beat retained crews (at night) to M/Way incidents on the M6 in S/Heath's area - the simple reason being - full time crews instantly respond from their Fire Station, Retained crews have to get from home to their Fire Station first. So if your ever trapped in the wreckage of your car in the early hours - you decide which system you prefer. As with all services you get what your prepared to pay for.

[Peter T]

What price a life eh?

[observer]

Think you'll find that the historical development of our Fire Services was founded on the saving of property, rather than life?!

[harry hayes]

Interesting thought Obs, but correct? I would have thought the preservation of life came before property.

 

Just a thought.

 

Happy days

[observer]

It all started with Insurance Companies H; and developed right up to the 1947 F S Act - as with most things - money talks!

[byrdy]

Ob's is right,on some old buildings you can still see the insurance "fire marks" so that the fire brigade would only attend those that had paid for fire insurance.Full details here--

http://www.firemarks.co.uk/History.htm

[Eagle]

The mark was an insurance mark not an instruction to the Fire Brigade. It gave merchants an indication that they would be recompensed in the event of a fire if they stored their goods.

[observer]

Crassus, the Roman Patrician who beat Spartacus; used his slaves as a fire service, inflating his charges as the fire raged - thus becoming one of the richest men in ancient Rome! Under the Empire, part of the Pretorian Guard (the Vigiles) provided a permanent public fire fighting service. In the film "Gangs of New York" an example of the competing nature of "Insurance" Brigades was shown!

[Pedro]

'Fire Marks' were introduced to identify insurers of an individual property and the insurers funded their own fire fighters. Such fire fighters would only attend fires in properties carrying their own insurance company fire marks although in rural areas other insurers would often pay for assistance. Warrington Museum has a good collection of fire marks and reproduction of some of the rarer ones are made.

[Dizzy]

So if your ever trapped in the wreckage of your car in the early hours - you decide which system you prefer. As with all services you get what your prepared to pay for.

 

Do we actually have a choice though Obs..... seems the choices are actually 'made' FOR us regardless of what we are asked to pay towards it

 

I am not having a go at the fire brigade by the way as I think they do a superb job. But a cut in any services supplied by either the fire brigade, ambulance service, police, hospitals or indeed a cut in any level of funding to them is NOT the way to go for a town which is constantly EXPANDING !!

 

The bigger that Warrington and it's surrounding areas gets with over development, roads, increased traffic, increased visitors etc etc then the more these services will be actually needed.......if cuts are made and services reduced then lives will be put at risk and sadly even lost die to delays

[observer]

Yes Diz: but the sad fact is, we all want high service levels BUT we also prefer low tax levels.

[Peter T]

That's NOT the point obs. Sometimes you can't have things on the cheap and most people are sensible enough to know that.

It is not about choices but what is required.

[Dizzy]

Obs I'd not class out tax levels as being particularly LOW

[observer]

That's why we have reasonable service levels Diz; up until now at any rate - we're now going to get taxed and services cut at the same time, to balance the books! Someone needs to tell MZZZZ Jones, as I believe she's kicking off again about the Council stopping free swimming!