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Walton Hall and Gardens SOLD


Sha

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Thank you for the clarification.

No doubt WH will go the same way, but there is a slight chance that the furore will create 'Damage Limitation' for the visitors.

 

I was confused because Neighbourhood Management is unlikely to have anything to do with consulting as the pressure is from the bottom up. :? Plus the Parish councillors and councillors (mostly the same) spend all their time trying to pick the biggest slices of the pie. :wink:

 

PS. One of the reasons that the council get away with things is that most people aren't interested in what goes on around them until it's too late. The decisions have by then already been taken and a sham consultation takes place.

 

But hey ho, you know all that. :wink:

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Re the comments on todays newspage;

 

 

What a load of pure bull!!!! Anyone seeing this as a U turn must be completely blind to what is really going on!

 

?TOWN Hall bosses at Warrington are to set up an advisory group to study alternative options for the re-development of Walton Hall and Gardens?. Yes, and what a real ?set up? that will be! ?A wide range of interested organisations will be invited to join the group? rather like the focus groups from their other consultation projects no doubt! Just how many of these ?interested organisations? will have the general publics rather than the Executive Boards interests at heart?

 

?These options will then become the basis for a major public consultation exercise? Which means it is only after they have carefully contrived a set of options, of which only the one which they prefer will appear feasible, will they ?consult? the public so the public consultation is in fact merely an exercise!

 

Cllr Bob Barr said: "At its meeting in June the council's executive board agreed to a widespread and thorough consultation with the public on a plan for the estate?. What the Exec board actually agreed was;-

To forge ahead with the Contessa deal,

To further work with Myerscough College re a base on the site,

To have a consultation on ?the gardens? (as they?ve already made a decision on the hotel aspect which will take quite a large part of the grounds, ?the gardens? are probably the bits that will be left.)

They decided to ?engage? with the existing tenants re ending their occupation of the premises.

(this will include the bike man)

And they also decided to approve the ?approbation? of the remaining part of the estate still covered by the restrictive covenant ? which will in effect get the grounds re-classified as development land.(which will enable them to do whatever they want on them!)

 

?But we have listened to what residents and campaigners have been saying?. What a joke! These decisions, which were taken directly after listening to the public show quite clearly that they had completely ignored the campaigners and petitioners and planned to forge ahead regardless. It is only for the fact that 5 of our councillors actually did listen to public opinion and called the decision in to scrutiny that these decisions were not immediately implemented.

 

On the 29th July the Scrutiny Committee will meet to give their opinion on the Executive Board?s decision. It remains to be seen which of our Councillors on this committee will fulfill their obligations to the electorate and vote with due regard for public opinion. Only a recommendation to put the issue before the full council will suffice.

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todays fron page news :

 

http://www.warrington-worldwide.co.uk/articles/8582/1/Walton--Hall-campaigners-new-allegations/Page1.html#postedcomment

 

?1 a year rent for 25 years.... 150 year lease..... no financial risk at all for Contessa if at any point they decide to pull out part way through development.... the council will BUY it back and pay for any work already completed ??? :shock::shock::evil::evil:

 

ABSOLUTE MADNESS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :?:shock::evil:

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Bit more to it all than what was reported actually.

 

This is one of the main reports (available on the councils CMIS website) that is going under the scrutiny committee's noses tomorrow as part of the call-in. )

 

Although shown to be from the last exec board meeting us mere mortals have only been given access to read it now :roll:

 

http://212.248.237.112/CmisWebPublic/Binary.ashx?Document=11057

 

A very interesting and detailed report on the actual overall plans for the estate and the developers lease etc (with a few large contradictions in places too :?:lol:) I'll leave you to spot them all yourselves :wink:

 

PS It states that Contessa is at an advanced stage of design and both parties are at an advanced stage of negotiation for a legal contract and property deal by the way....... so is there any point in the new focus groups coming up with alternative sustainable options for the buildings or even for a consultation :wink::?

 

Well worth a read whether you are for or against the plans :)

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So at last the true picture is being revealed, and as Dizzy says, signing the document was very very close. And as Dizzy suggests, read the rest of the document carefully and see what conclusions you draw.

 

I'll help. It states several times that a main aim is to save the Conservatory but also states it will be demolished and become a conference centre. The report is riddled with contradictions. The whole document seems to be a cut-and-paste exercise by a lazy half-wit and then approved by our Executive!

 

From the beginning I have been saying that Contessa would have half the area though I was wrong to say exclusively. But think about this. I did suggest back in April that the pond would remain in the public domain, as the map now shows. Presumably WBC wanted to guarantee public access. That can only mean that they cannot guarantee access to all the rest of the proposed Contessa area. Anyone got a different interpretation?

 

The Save Walton Gardens Campaign is seeking a full council meeting referral for this disgraceful proposal, so that the failings of the process can be publicly aired. Anything less would be the result of politicians refusing to accept responsibility for their actions. Sadly, the most likely outcome is that the Exec will say 'Give us another go, you can trust us'. Until the Contessa bid is withdrawn there will still be officers and politicians who think it is a good idea to give away our heritage.

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A heated outdoor swimming pool????? Costa del Walton????

 

What I can't understand, is WHY will this project work when within a radius of a few miles, you have the Daresbury Hotel and complex and the Village Hotel and complex, not to mention several pubs and eating places. I just can't see hordes of visitors wanting to flock to Walton Gardens and use the hotel, pub etc. Could turn out to be another hole in WBC finances in a few years time.

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The Executive Board have requested that the decisions be returned to themselves for 'reconsideration'. They have offered a 'full public consultation' - but we all know what their idea of full public consultation means! and true to form the revised plans for 'public' consultation are as derisory as their original attempts! :roll:

 

Why should members of the Scrutiny Committee (or anyone else for that matter) trust them to honour any offers they may make?

At the last Executive Board meeting they proved themselves to be without any honour, without any honesty and indeed downright deceitful. They made 'heartfelt' speeches to the public, assuring them that 'no decisions had been or will be made before a full public consultation had been carried out' - they then went behind closed doors to make decisions on matters which they knew were adverse to public opinion and decided to carry on regardless!

 

If there were any genuine intention of listening to public opinion or considereing alternative options why would decisions such as, to communicate with tenants re vacating their premises, and to approve 'appropriation' of the land be made?

No, they must not be trusted!

 

At tommorrows Scrutiny meeting only a vote to refer the decision to full council will be acceptable!

 

If the decisions made by the Exec Board are refered to full council, each and every councillor from all wards of the town will have the opportunity to make their stance on the matter clear - and in full view of the public.

Any councillors who are genuinely supportive of public opinion shouldn't have a problem with doing this.

 

The Executive Board are not obligated to change their decisions to comply with recommendations from the Scrutiny Committee, and indeed very often do not.

Neither do they have to pay heed to recommendations from the Full Council. However, should the vast majority of the towns councillors declare no support for the Exec Board's plans/decisions it would be extremely unwise and extremely politically damaging for the the Exec to implement those decisions.

 

For this issue to go before full council would be extremely valuable for the people of Warrington who would then be able to discern which of our elected members are really acting on behalf of the electorate.

Which members of the Scrutiny Committee will press for referal to full council remains to be seen!

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Interesting info Sha :wink: Got me thinking though particularly the bit

 

 

If the decisions made by the Exec Board are refered to full council, each and every councillor from all wards of the town will have the opportunity to make their stance on the matter clear - and in full view of the public.

Any councillors who are genuinely supportive of public opinion shouldn't have a problem with doing this.

 

For this issue to go before full council would be extremely valuable for the people of Warrington who would then be able to discern which of our elected members are really acting on behalf of the electorate.

Which members of the Scrutiny Committee will press for referal to full council remains to be seen!

 

Would they really want it to go to Full Council for this very reason :?

 

I have not read or heard and comments in the press from ANY of the elected councillors in opposition to the plans or any part of it whatsoever.

 

Given that they are forever badmouthing each other publicly in the press over anything and everything is it not odd that with such a big and contentious issue that the Labour councillors in particular have not openly questioned any of the points or decisions made so far. I would have thought that there was more than enough amunition in the 'secret' report for them to alert the public and have their say in the usual way.

 

I realise that Labour have called-in the process to scrutiny but even that is rather weak when you read it and says nothing more than has already been put forward by others in opposition (most of which has already been answered in the report)

 

DETAILS OF REQUEST FOR CALL-IN OF DECISION 059/09

WALTON HALL & ESTATE REGENERATION PROJECT

 

Name of Member Initiating Call-In: Cllr Terry O?Neill

 

Reason for Calling the Decision In

 

© lack of or inappropriate consultation

(f) the decision has not been taken with a sufficient degree of openness

(g) the decision lacks clarity of aims and desired outcomes

(i) alternative options and their likely effects on the social, economic and environment well-being of the borough

 

?There has been no consultation in to drawing up the Master Plan, or any involvement in the Procurement Process. The only Plan available is that chosen by WBC, with no public involvement, also there has been no proper competitive dialogue or opportunity for any developer other than Contessa to propose a possible viable plan. There?s insufficient detail in the plan they?re consulting on, to be able to make an informed decision. Intensification of the proposed commercial operation e.g. Private Hotel and Grounds will completely change the nature of the Gardens, therefore there needed to be consultation on this when drawing up the Master Plan. Added to that all the extra traffic accessing the Hotel through the Gardens will have a detrimental impact on the public amenity aspect of the Gardens, with no traffic impact assessment being provided. There?s considerable uncertainty with regard to the operating figures for the present facilities, this was highlighted by the Friends of Walton Gardens in their presentation to the Executive Board.?

 

Members Supporting the Call-In: Cllrs Peter Carey, Pat Wright, Steve Wright and Mike Hannon

 

 

Could it be that the call-in was just for show and as a brownie point public excercise by Labour but they like the others really want the plans to go ahead too :shock:

I would like to be proved wrong though :D

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Walton Hall was due to be open to the public this Saturday for the hosting of the usual Wedding/Bridal Fayre.

 

It is reported in todays WG (2 days before the event) that this has now been CANCELLED !

 

WHY !?!?

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Latest news buzzing around is that the sell off of Walton Hall and Gardens is as good as done, with the i 's to be dotted and the t 's to be crossed very shortly!

 

Stockton Heath residents were last night informed at a 'Question Time' meeting in St Thomas's Hall by a very concerned and extremely well informed gentleman that the deal to turn Walton Hall into a Boutique Hotel, private golf club, and riverside bar was far more advanced than than the public are aware. He also informed residents that circa 50% of the land will also be taken from public use.

The 'deal' includes granting a lease of 125 years to the developer.

 

.........

 

Just what the hell is going on in the town hall chambers?

A lease of 125 years is in effect a sell off.

The Hall, the heritage centre, the crazy golf and 50% of the land all of which are owned by the public are to be lost to us. There's been no public consultation just dealings behind closed doors it's a total disgrace!

 

Contessa have pulled out of the deal...

 

Guess that's that then!!

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Latest news buzzing around is that the sell off of Walton Hall and Gardens is as good as done, with the i 's to be dotted and the t 's to be crossed very shortly!

 

Stockton Heath residents were last night informed at a 'Question Time' meeting in St Thomas's Hall by a very concerned and extremely well informed gentleman that the deal to turn Walton Hall into a Boutique Hotel, private golf club, and riverside bar was far more advanced than than the public are aware. He also informed residents that circa 50% of the land will also be taken from public use.

The 'deal' includes granting a lease of 125 years to the developer.

 

.........

 

Just what the hell is going on in the town hall chambers?

A lease of 125 years is in effect a sell off.

The Hall, the heritage centre, the crazy golf and 50% of the land all of which are owned by the public are to be lost to us. There's been no public consultation just dealings behind closed doors it's a total disgrace!

 

Contessa have pulled out of the deal...

 

Guess that's that then!!

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

Here's the document that proves that the 'extremely well informed gentleman' was in fact truly well informed!!!

 

http://212.248.237.112/CmisWebPublic/Binary.ashx?Document=11057

 

Thankfully, by his revealing the 'dirty deeds done behind closed doors' and sparking a massive public protest the truth has been brought clearly into the public domain!

 

"

Contessa have pulled out of the deal...

Guess that's that then!!

 

Well Baz as Coun Barr has recently stated:-

?We can?t rule out the possibility that a hotel might still be part of the proposals.?

and the fact that they are still planning to go ahead with their 'advisory group' WBC brand of consultation, one might wonder if you may be being a tad too optimistic a tad too soon!

 

How could you be sure that when they say "Contessa (Walton Hall Hotel Ltd) have withdrawn their interest" it is not said in the same way as "There will be a full and open public consultation"??????

 

A sell off to a hotel is still a sell off to a hotel whether the hotel is Contessa or is a hotel by any other name.

 

So Baz, it might be not quite "that then!!!"

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Well, with the "big society" now in vogue - perhaps everyone wishing to keep control of it, will buy it and run it for nowt?! :?

 

Contessa were offered it at a peppercorn rent of just ?1 a year and they certainly weren't planning to run it for nowt - they were to keep all the profits!

They were also to have a development agreement that if it all went 'belly up' the council would reimburse everything they'd spent on it - ensuring the 'deal' was at completely no risk to them!

So why should'nt anyone wishing to keep control of it be granted the same conditions?

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I'll give them ?100 (negotiable) a year for the whole of the Heritage Centre square area ( including the cafe) on a 10+ year lease (with conditions of course) . Deal ???? :D

 

I will keep the cafe and heritage room/shop open with a few additions and changes to them and the other usable spaces in the yard area but in keeping with what Walton Gardens is all about :D

 

You think I'm joking but I'm not, I've had a vision :shock::D

 

PS Sha.... The new company 'Walton Hall Hotel Ltd' has not yet been created

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:lol: I don't want the Hall as it's it's not right for what I have in mind and it's haunted :shock: .. so you could have/run that :wink:

 

I just want the Heritage & courtyard area :D

 

You don't seem to be taking me seriously though Obs... so that's you 'excluded' from my bit for starters :lol::P:wink:

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:lol: I don't want the Hall as it's it's not right for what I have in mind and it's haunted :shock: .. so you could have/run that :wink:

 

I just want the Heritage & courtyard area :D

 

You don't seem to be taking me seriously though Obs... so that's you 'excluded' from my bit for starters :lol::P:wink:

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:lol::lol: I'm laughing but I have no idea what you mean... Who is Mr Wang :oops::lol:

 

Anyway Obs between us we seem to be detracting from what was actually a rather serious topic....... after all the future of Walton Hall and gardens is STILL under threat and there is nothing to say that the plans which 'were' on the table wont still be implemented.

 

So...

 

Why 'did' Contessa actually pull out does anyone know?

 

What is the date for the next exec board meeting that it was all referred back to with advice by the scrutiny committee?

 

When does the consultation start and have the advisory/focus groups been set up yet?

 

Has the process for appropriation of the land to overcome the restrictive covenants definately be halted or is it still going ahead to pave the way for any future redevelopment/regeneration scheme?

 

One thing good has come out of it though... the Council finally registered the land in May after owning it for 68 years. Talk about being slow eh :lol:

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