Waste watchers? UK group fears trash bin spies

[Mary]

It's the new front in the nanny state: Microchips placed in garbage bins to monitor how much people throw away.

 

A pro-privacy group warns in a new report that more than 2.6 million of the chips have been surreptitiously installed in what is seen as a first step toward charging those who toss too much.

 

Proponents say it's a bid to push recycling. Opponents say it stinks.

 

"They should mind their own business," said Terry Williams, an unemployed Londoner who thinks the government is meddling. "I believe they have gone too far. It's not like we are throwing away anything that is illegal."

 

The advocacy group Big Brother Watch found through a series of Freedom of Information requests that many local governments, called councils in Britain, are installing the microchips in trash cans distributed to households, but in most cases have not yet activated them ? in part because officials know the move would be unpopular.

 

"They are waiting for the political climate to change before they start using them," said campaign director Dylan Sharpe, who predicted that families that produce large amounts of garbage would be fined.

 

The trash microchips are now part of the British information grid, which already includes a heavy reliance on closed-circuit television surveillance and cameras to monitor the population, particularly on the crowded public transportation system.

 

"This is yet another piece of surveillance that the councils are taking on in our daily life," said Sharpe. "With this information they can tell if we are home or not, and the information is stored on their database, which is not that secure."

[Sue Durnim]

I have no doubt that the councils, nationwide, will implement this scheme sooner than later, you read in the press and see it on TV, people being fined ?1000 or more and threaten with prison with putting the wrong type of waste in the wrong bin, or leaving it on the street causing an obstruction, or worse the bin is not near enough to the pavement for the refuse workers to collect it (only by inches and not feet).

 

Yet people steal thousands of pounds worth of goods from shops or break into your home and get a slap on the wrist with a 2 year suspended sentance and ?75 fine.

 

Pay as you throw or is it another way of collecting yet more taxes from the already over tax burden public.

[Paul Kennedy]

Worth noting that the landfill tax paid by local authorities is currently ?40 per tonne, rising by ?8 per tonne each financial year until 2013.

 

I might be minded to ask a question at the next Full Council regarding microchipped bins. Waste & bin collections is a very controversial/emotive subject.....and indeed in the case of the proposed incinerator/waste to energy plant....highly political.

 

Also the following for info:

 

The Landfill Directive represents a step change in the way we dispose of waste in this country and will help drive waste up the hierarchy through waste minimisation and increased levels of re-use, recycling and energy recovery.

 

The Directive's overall aim is "to prevent or reduce as far as possible negative effects on the environment, in particular the pollution of surface water, groundwater, soil and air, and on the global environment, including the greenhouse effect, as well as any resulting risk to human health, from the landfilling of waste, during the whole life-cycle of the landfill".

 

The Directive has provisions covering location of landfills, and technical and engineering requirements for aspects such as water control and leachate management, protection of soil and water and methane emissions control.

 

The Council Decision on Waste Acceptance Criteria, agreed in Council in December 2002, set out the standards that waste must meet to be accepted at one of the three classes of landfill - hazardous, non-hazardous or inert - prescribed by the Landfill Directive.

 

The requirements of the Directive were transposed into national legislation through the Landfill (England and Wales) Regulations 2002, subsequently amended in 2004 and 2005 to transpose the requirements of Council Decision 2003/33/EC on Waste Acceptance Criteria. The provisions were re-transposed as part of the Environmental Permitting (England and Wales) Regulations 2007.

 

More detailed information on the Directive, its impacts on the way we manage waste and how we are implementing its provisions are outlined in the landfill directive briefing paper (PDF 50 KB).

 

The Directive sets demanding targets to reduce the amount of biodegradable municipal landfilled. The Landfill Allowances Trading Scheme was proposed for England to help the UK meet these targets. The allowances will be tradable between authorities allowing the burden of meeting the Landfill Directive's targets to be met in the most cost effective way.

 

The European Commission have published a report to the Council and the European Parliament on the national strategies for the reduction of biodegradable waste going to landfills pursuant to article 5(1) of the Directive. This report also describes progress towards meeting the targets in article 5(2) described above. See the pdf at: http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=COM:2005:0105:FIN:EN:PDF

[Evil Sid]

i am sure this topic came up about a year (or maybe more) ago. cannot quite remember where the chips were placed. it was either under the lip where the lid is or under the bottom.

 

just had a quick troll on the net and found this link from an article in 2006.

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-402439/Germans-plant-bugs-wheelie-bins.html

[Dizzy]

Halton Council already have micro chips on their new blue bins.

 

I think residents receive vouchers when they have recycled a certain amount of waste via their blue bins.

[observer]

If they taxed excess packaging at source, our bins would contain a lot less.

[Paul Kennedy]

I will be asking a question at Full Council tomorrow regarding microchipped bins.

[Sue Durnim]

What would happen if by accident an heavy duty magnet was passed over a microchip placed in my wheelie bin?

[Peter T]

What would happen if by accident an heacy duty magnet was passed over a microchip placed in my wheelie bin?

They probably wouldn't collect it if they couldn't take a reading.

[Sue Durnim]

What would happen if by accident an heacy duty magnet was passed over a microchip placed in my wheelie bin?

They probably wouldn't collect it if they couldn't take a reading.

 

Doh!

[LymmParent]

Makes no sense to me.

 

Chipping bins won't tell anyone exactly WHAT is being chucked, only the time and weight of the bin as it was emptied. If it's spying, then it's spying on the binmen more than the rest of us. Seeing how fast they complete the round, exactly where they go, confirming which bins have been emptied....

 

Weighing garbage is pointless anyway. One brick in the bin weighs more than six bags of plastic wrapping and polystyrene, but has a fraction of the volume in landfill or environmental impact. We've been given a limit - one binful max per week per household, enforced by refusal to take any more.

 

Do we really want to go down the route of having people creeping around the night before, sticking their rubbish in the neighbours' bins? Or little old ladies keeping rubbish bags in the spare room for fear of a bill they can't pay? Or even malicious bin loading to get people you don't like extra fines?

[Evil Sid]

Do we really want to go down the route of having people creeping around the night before, sticking their rubbish in the neighbours' bins?

 

round here they don't even bother to wait for nightfall they just wait until the bins are put out in the morning and then see if there is any room in them before putting their rubbish in.

 

there have been times when i have put a half empty bin out and then ten minutes later had to drag three bags out of it just to shut the lid. i have also had an old chair put in my bin before now. so on that basis i could end up with my bin not getting emptied because others have used it and put too much in it.

the other thing is that at the moment i can see seven black bins and one blue bin in the back alley from my bedroom window. so how do they sort out those.

[Sue Durnim]

I have no doubt that there will be an increase of fly tippers and bin bags left in hedgerows throughout the night in the leafy lanes of Warrington. So when you are driving in the morning you wil have to swerve to miss them.

[Dizzy]

Like I already mentioned Halton have microchips on some of their new blue bins and vouchers are issued to those who recycle a lot .... my uncles has one on his and two council officials came out to check it when it was delivered

 

Seems other councils are doing it too but on an 'opt-in' and be rewarded basis rather than via heavy 'penalties' for those that don't.

 

I like the opt in and be rewarded idea and I'm sure it wouldn't get peoples backs up as much as the thought of being spied on and penalty for those who dont want to play ball.

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8550957.stm

[Paul Kennedy]

I will be asking a question at Full Council tomorrow regarding microchipped bins.

 

Question asked.

 

Answer, no bins in Warrington are microchipped, there have been no discussions within the Council regarding microchipping and no plans to introduce them.

[Bazj]

I will be asking a question at Full Council tomorrow regarding microchipped bins.

 

Question asked.

 

Answer, no bins in Warrington are microchipped, there have been no discussions within the Council regarding microchipping and no plans to introduce them.

 

hmmmm so that either means they've all already got them in or they will be introduced soon then?

[observer]

Spose there's an easier and cheaper way - have a range of bin sizes and charge for the bin size - half size bin = half price?! But as someone has already suggested, if they go down this route - England's green and pleasant land, will become one huge fly tipping area.

[Dizzy]

So everyone just opts for the smaller 'cheaper' bin size and then when it's not big enough either sneaks their excess rubbish into other peoples bins when they are put out or takes it to the tip (so it still goes to landfill) or just dumps it

 

That wont work Obs.

 

From what Paul says we haven't and wont be getting microchips on our black bins so for once WBC is using it's brain cell but then again they aren't going down the 'incentive' route for recyling in the blue bins either like Halton and other councils

 

They may aswell just leave it as it is. We all have a black bin and if it's full no excess is taken so it's upto us to either put it in the emptied bin for the next collection or take it to the tip etc.

 

We all have a blue bin and same goes for that ie no excess taken (although I've never managed to fill mine yet but with an incentive I may try harder )

 

And some have green bins too.... which in the summer months probably fill up quite quickly for those with large gardens.

 

Microchipping it seems is a no-brainer and those councils who have tried it have found it a waste of time as the only thing it can determine is the weight of the rubbish in a bin at the time of emptying and also the frequency of collection..... as there can be no proof of 'who' actually put 'what' in the bin either before or after it was put out for collection and subsequently 'weighed' then how on earth could a council actually calculate charges accordingly

 

Bricks in an annoying neighbours bin and pay back time has arrived

[Bill]

I doubt what they term a microchip is anything more than a RFID device, similar to those used for in store security so forget about strong magnets, they?re not quite that easy to kill. It?s not going to be doing any weighing either, that?ll be done by a device on the wagon that?ll then store the information against you bin ID number.

 

I believe they were introduced over in Ireland a few years ago but what they found there was the number of garden bonfires just went through the roof, cancelling out all environmental gains. Unbelievably, they even attempted aerial surveillance in order to track down these lawbreakers but in the end, they had to admit defeat and the whole system was eventually scrapped.

 

What I find amazing about all this is if the above information is freely available for me to find, then why can?t our councillors do the same? If we have so little money, why throw it all down the pan testing out ideas that have already been tried elsewhere?

 

Message to the council. Stop buggering about and just empty my bloody bin!

 

Bill

[Sha]

I will be asking a question at Full Council tomorrow regarding microchipped bins.

 

Question asked.

 

Answer, no bins in Warrington are microchipped, there have been no discussions within the Council regarding microchipping and no plans to introduce them.

 

But if you look closely at the design of the bins there's convenient little holes where these little micro chips could go should there ever be plans to introduce them.....after the elections maybe?

[Evil Sid]

one question i will ask. what is to stop you removing the mircochip and just placing it in your back garden (that way if the council ask you can always say that it fell out or just feign ignorance "what mircochip?")

[Dizzy]

But if you look closely at the design of the bins there's convenient little holes where these little micro chips could go should there ever be plans to introduce them.....after the elections maybe?

 

Ca't say I've ever looked that closely Sha

 

Anyway 'if' they ever do decide on microchipping our bins they would presumably have to supply us all with new bins that were ready chipped. That would of course cost a lot of money and all the old ones would have to be recycled.

Or they could just issue the chipped bins to new housing developments or people who need a new bin.

 

I'm guessing that would be very difficult for them to 'sneak' the chips into all our old bins when they are left out for collection as in a lot of cases they wouldn't know which bin belonged to which house anyway

 

Anyway I'm not really bothered if they chip mine or not. It's no big deal really when you think about it

[Paul Kennedy]

But you can rest assured that there will be at least one Councillor keeping an eye on this matter...and the answers that I was given at Full Council.

 

I am now also involving myself with waste to energy discussions, and I'm no longer so sure that it is quite as straightforward as is being envisaged. Indeed given our good and rising recycling rates, waste minimisation, and plants being built elsewhere, there might not be a need nor a viable business plan to have such a plant here in Warrington at all.

[observer]

Are you sure it would just be used for Warrington waste Paul; or is someone thinking we can make money out of burning other folk's waste?

[Paul Kennedy]

Well that would be my concern Observer, since the size for Warrington's waste alone would not, as I see it, be economically viable. It might be that in the future, Warrington, having taken in other's waste for many years, will now be asking them to take ours, albeit a relatively small amount. Personally, I rather think that we need to work hard to minimise waste, increase recyling, both in range and quantity, and then look very carefully at what we have left and the best way to deal with it for the residents of Warrington. I think the amount might be in the order of 50,000 tonnes. Incinerators need high calorific feedstock, currently we recycle much of that, but clearly recycling is dependent on the markets, so the situation could change. There are of course methods other than incineration. I am looking forward to feasibility reports in due course.