Flat Earth Society?

[LymmParent]

What's the difference between believing one story without proof and believing another story without proof? Who cares what the story is? You can't watch a telly programme and then hand it on as proven fact to win your argument and expect to get away with it on here!!

[Peter T]

The prog. I watched last night was about Krakotoa. That can go up any time soon, and that is of more concern than anything that the knee-jerkers can come up with.

 

This has happened before as history has shown. So deal with the problem, you can't stop it.

[safeway56]

I well remember around 25 years ago something about a hole in the ozone layer which would bring about the demise of mankind...Sometime before the same climatologists were predicting another ice age. Now the same climatologists are claiming we are about to be drowned in either the rising oceans or our own sweat. All of these astonishing predictions were also on TV and we were meant to take them as written on tablets of stone. It all turned out to be nonsense in much the same way as the present day predictions will turn out to be.

[Paul Kennedy]

Given that the population of the world has tripled from about 2.5 billion to about 7 billion in the last 50 years, I think it would not be unreasonable to assume that the increase in human activity in its various forms has generated some degree of heat.

 

The following link might be one reason why the Copenhagen meeting might be well attended, and indeed in itself contribute to global warming.

 

http://www.spiegel.de/international/zeitgeist/0,1518,665182,00.html

[observer]

Eh LP; the difference between a history of rising sea levels and rising from the dead is, that the evidence is available for the former in the form of a geological record.

[LymmParent]

Eh LP; the difference between a history of rising sea levels and rising from the dead is, that the evidence is available for the former in the form of a geological record.

 

Don't tell me - tell the blokes in frocks and fancy hats! I never declared a belief one way or the other.

 

Come to think of it though, their access to lavish costumes may be the basis for your antipathy - wardrobe envy!

[observer]

Your recourse to trivia, must be a substitute for thought?!

[LymmParent]

Your recourse to trivia, must be a substitute for thought?!

 

No, it's a gesture of compassion - moving down to a level where you can join in fully.

[observer]

Nah, methinks your struggling to tread water in the deep end - stick to the recipe section!

[LymmParent]

OK - tell you what, you lay out your evidence that there was no Resurrection. You prove it beyond doubt with measurable scientific fact. I have no investment in the idea either way, it's just an exercise in demonstrating your intellectual superiority in the subject area you have chosen, so don't hold back to spare my feelings.....

 

Anyone got a lifebelt for Obs - he seems to have developed cramp or something....

[observer]

Wouldn't waste my time on such superstitious nonesense - even to amuse you! Get back in the shallow end with Wingy!

[LymmParent]

OK. He's got maggots and no girl can resist a man like that!

[asperity]

Sea levels have been rising at a steady rate of about 3mm a year for centuries. Since long before the industrial age which is supposed to be responsible. It has been rising because we are still warming up from the last great ice age. Nothing to do with man, everything to due with natural cycles.

[LymmParent]

Hello. Was just wondering where you were..... might have known a little something on sea levels would bring you to the surface!

 

I agree - warming and cooling predates us and our efforts. But we honestly don't know whether our actions are increasing the rate at which it happens. Only way to find out is to measure it, make some changes and see if there's any benefit. Deciding before we do that is a matter of belief again, isn't it? Either you believe we can help or you don't - just as either you believe in God or you don't. Seems obvious to me to measure and see, then you know.

[asperity]

I'm "enjoying" sea level rise.....and fall.....and rise......and fall etc around Orkney, Shetland and the Outer hebrides. Lousy mobile signal up here in the sticks hence the lack of posts. Carry on with the argument children, but nicely now

[LymmParent]

Ooooh, sounds almost as much fun as a weekend with Wingnut and his special friends.....

[Lt Kije]

Highest temperature rises in the last 10 years since records began

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/8400905.stm

[indy]

As an archaeologist and someone who studies 1000's of years of history climate change has been taking place for hundreds of thousands of years. It's earth's natural process and has little to do with emmissions etc. It's pure scaremongering and an excuse to ask for more taxes

During the 1st century as the Romans were invading Britain average temperatures were 2 degrees higher than they were at the beginning of the 20th century. There is an accepted natural temperature cycle around the globe ....

Tony Robinson launched his new series last night that highlights temperature and climatic changes since the prehistoric period ....

[observer]

To continue with the nautical analogy: the effect of measures to "avert " climate change, even assuming it possible; would take decades to kick in, by which time the "changes" will have continued to get worse, in other words, it's like trying to turn a super-tanker around. It is frankly the new extreme arrogance of mankind to even think they can "control" natural climatic phenomena, which have occured periodically throughout the history of the planet. If we are to experience an increase in Extreme Weather Events, then the answer is to plan and prepare, in a tangible and practical manner to mitigate their effects on populations.

[Eagle]

It is frankly the new extreme arrogance of mankind to even think they can "control" natural climatic phenomena

 

I like that Obs but would qualify your "mankind" as the highly paid experts who haven't a clue but have a crusade who have caught the imagination of a gullible haven't a clue populace.

[Lt Kije]

A very strong opinion eagle, tell me how you came by this opinion and your qualifications in the climate field. Or is that just your opinion of people that don't agree with you

[Evil Sid]

government is only worried because the south of england is lower than the north so they will get their feet wet first

 

noticed a news item the other day that the civil service is relocating some of its departments to manchester, wonder if they know something we don't and is it related

[observer]

Think you'll find Gov Depts are being moved to spread job opportunities about; and reduce over-population in London; but in a way your right, cos London will be underwater if the Thames Barrier fails!

[21GoodLife]

It's earth's natural process and has little to do with emmissions etc. It's pure scaremongering and an excuse to ask for more taxes

During the 1st century as the Romans were invading Britain average temperatures were 2 degrees higher than they were at the beginning of the 20th century. There is an accepted natural temperature cycle around the globe ....

 

So, let me see.

 

You are right about a lot of things. Indeed GMST in the 1st century was greater than it is now, and yes the Earth does have its own natural process of warming and cooling, glacial and interglacial.

 

But, and it's a whopping but.

 

Over the last 140,000 years temperatures have been up around the current mean temperature for only short periods. So in respect to the last 140,000 years, temperatures are unusual. But perhaps part of a cycle you say?

 

Looking at those cycles, the largest recent shift in temperature was between about 15,000 and 5,000 years ago, shifting roughly 10 degrees C. It taken 10,000 years for this to happen at a rate of 0.1 degrees per century.

 

And also between 300 BC and 1700 AD there's been a gradual cool of GMST, again of about 0.1 degrees celcius. But then there's a little spanner in the mechanics and it's got people a bit worried. Temperatures leveled out, which is fine, but in 1910 they started to climb at a rate not previously seen. A little respite in the 1950s, and they were off again. All in all, over the last century we have seen a rise of 1 degree, 10x that of other recorded changes. Taking the last 200 years into account, the average is still 0.5 degrees/century.

 

Greenhouse gases trap heat in the atmosphere, it's a fact. The albedo effect reflects energy/radiation out of our atmosphere, it's also a fact. Between the Earth, the atmosphere and the Sun they all find an equilibrium point, and by unlocking underground carbon and releasing it unnaturally out its own carbon cycle we are meddling.

 

So there's strong science to suggest that climate change is anthropogenic, and that's not to say science is always right. And there's always going to be media trying to grab air time and sell papers, and they've recently decided that skepticism sells more. Then there's your conspiracy theorists, new world order and zeitgeist crew...gimme a break!

 

Put it this way. I'd imagine the vast majority that have taken the time to read this pay for insurance. Why do we do it? To protect ourselves against something that we don't want to happen, but there's always a chance it will.

 

Climate change insurance is like life insurance, the later you leave it, the more costly it gets. Now is the time to act.

 

Forgive me for my over indulgent soap box

 

[Bazj]

I see you have bought into the whole thing then 21GoodLife. Do you also have insurance cover against alien landings, meteorites and earthquakes?

 

.......and it isn't climate change insurance; it is climate change tax that the government want to stiff us with. When there are scientists from the "the world is heating up camp" swapping emails stating that they can't justify half of the nonsense they are spouting, what are the rest of us to think? These are the very people who are telling government and then government is acting on their advice!