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Too many traffic lights!!!!!


Gary
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I'm timing it from when the lights go green for the pedestrians, to when they next go to amber for road traffic. I'm not sure of the significance in this context of traffic that "double up on the yellows" - or what it means even!

 

That's the whole problem.

It isn't about how long the crossing is on green for, but the length of time that the traffic is stopped. :roll:

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I don't think it's been finally designed yet, but the summary of the modelling exercise is here: http://212.248.237.112/CmisWebPublic/Binary.ashx?Document=10366

 

It's essentially removing the roundabout, creating extra lanes for turns. There's no near equivalent junction in Warrington with the volumes from the minor roads, but I suppose Sankey Way/Cromwell Avenue is similar.

 

In terms of safety (particularly for pedestrians and cyclists) a signalised four-arm junction is better than a roundabout, and signalising any junction usually pays dividends (in reducing delays) where traffic volumes are high. Modelling and theory don't always work though....

?3m :shock:

 

Still, in this case the roundabout is just too big, you stop start all the way round, so proper lights may work much better than what we have now.

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  • 1 month later...

There wouldn?t be much wrong with providing one just before the M62 roundabout (adjacent the hotel) as roads are already in place including an existing off ramp.

 

At least that would allow workers on Winwick Quay an alternative escape route rather than be forced to use the Cromwell Road junction that gridlocks at peak times.

 

Just as long as they make it a standard T-junction without lights then it should be ok.

 

Bill :)

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  • 2 weeks later...

Simple solution, leave winwick road as it is.

kick out royal mail and stobbards from hawleys lane which is not equipped for such heavy transport vehicles which block the roundabout.

 

also consider the traffic lights already there only installed what??? 8 years ago, how much did that cost? just to be pulled out.

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have seen the plans for the replacement lights at the college on winwick road. As expected in that there will be right turn filter lanes north and south bound and the A50 is marginally widened with a left turn lane and right filter.

 

However both bus stops south of the roundabout currently have bays. Not after the works. the bays will be filled in and the busses will stop in the carriageway. Cannot see how this will help the flow of traffic particulary as this will no doubt cause traffic at peak time to back up into the lights themselves.

 

See the following whereby the leaflet can be viewed:

 

http://www.warrington.gov.uk/Transportandstreets/Roadsafety/A49_junction_improvement_works.aspx

 

There are a nice set of graphs which to be honest dont show a huge amount of improvement for ?3m.

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Wonder if they considered the cheaper option of just taking the fuse out of the traffic lights for a while to return it to a simple roundabout?

 

I can?t really see any point what so ever in moving the bus stops out directly onto the main carriageway other than to deliberately frustrate other road users. Perhaps whoever came up with this perverted logic could come on here to explain the thinking behind it.

 

Bill :)

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Getting rid of bus laybys is to counter the selfishness of car drivers who do not let buses out of laybys - and on a 40 mph busy road it is otherwise virtually impossible for a bus to get out of a layby without making other traffic change course or speed. So buses get stuck. The new stops would be far enough from the junction not to cause stacking back - and it might just encourage more Warrington drivers to use the outside lane, which will be essential to making the most of the new junction where every arm will now have three or four lanes (so the artics from Stobarts and RM can use the inside lane going north and cars can use the outside lane).

 

The problem with the southbound layby is that the current bus stop allows students non-conflicting access to/from college, whereas the new location would mean crossing the road into the college, pub and hospital. The Collegiate have already made representations.

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Well I don't let buses out of lay-bys because I have had so many incidents of buses pulling out of lay-bys while I'm still going past them, forcing me into oncoming traffic on occasion, so have a pet hate.

 

that aside, reading this leaflet.

 

near the picture there is a section what are the benefits?

 

REDUCED TRAFFIC CONGESTION

That remains to me seen, however I have always felt roundabouts to be the most efficient road junction catering for all traffic fairly and environmentally friendly.

 

IMPROVED PEDESTRIAN CROSSING

Well they have removed THE most popular crossings currently there that would be the one serving longford toward alban retail and the one connecting the college to the petrol station and moved them into the center of the crossing, both of these were further away from the roundabout so pedestrians only had to look for traffic in one direction for each of their two crossings..I'm still trying to work out how many directions cars could be approaching from in the new plans.

 

ON and OFF road improvements to encourage cycling.

AGGGGHHH!!!!! look morons, there are cyclist and there are motorists, 90% of either only do journeys they have to rather than want to, if they wanted to then they could find a safer, more pleasant ride than a busy dual carriageway along warringtons industrial and retail park!. encouragement has nothing to do with commuting which is where the problem lies.

 

REDUCTION OF TRAFFIC ON ALTERNATIVE ROUTES

WTF??? a reduction of traffic on alternative routes can only mean that they would prefer this route, so by that logic thus increasing traffic on this route, defeating the purpose entirely and more importantly abolishing benefit 1. (REDUCED TRAFFIC CONGESTION)

are they un aware of what they just said??

 

MORE RELIABLE BUS SERVICE

How? with all the increased traffic now prefering this route to alternate

 

ENHANCED LANDSCAPING AROUND THE JUNTION

its fine as it is, very green area towards the college side, if anything a lot of the "green" is going?

 

 

 

I also see no real provision for the traffic coming up long lane turning right out of town (which is the majority of the queing traffic at peak time) but two lanes for the miniscule traffic turning left towards town.

 

just above in the blue box

 

CLOSURE OF ACCESS FROM A49 TO DENSHAM AVENUE to reduce traffic and allow a left turn lane on the a50

 

well traffic has never been a problem here I use this junction plenty of times to avoid joining the aforementioned queue of traffic turning right out of town when I'm trying to go straight across towards dallam. but they spin it like we can a left turn onto long lane, whereas in fact this lane already exists in the one they are closing, all they are doing is forcing people coming down northway to have to join long lane right turn traffic, which they previously would have skipped by jumping straight onto winwick road and not causing congestion.

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Well I don't let buses out of lay-bys because I have had so many incidents of buses pulling out of lay-bys while I'm still going past them, forcing me into oncoming traffic on occasion, so have a pet hate.

 

Er - if you let them out, they wouldn't pull out as you were going past....

 

REDUCED TRAFFIC CONGESTION

That remains to me seen, however I have always felt roundabouts to be the most efficient road junction catering for all traffic fairly and environmentally friendly.

 

They are until they are regularly congested, then then they become part of the problem. See the report from Milton Keynes:

http://www.mkweb.co.uk/localnews/documents/Roundabouts_or_Signals_Aug_2008_WE.pdf

 

 

ON and OFF road improvements to encourage cycling.

AGGGGHHH!!!!! look morons, there are cyclist and there are motorists, 90% of either only do journeys they have to rather than want to, if they wanted to then they could find a safer, more pleasant ride than a busy dual carriageway along warringtons industrial and retail park!. encouragement has nothing to do with commuting which is where the problem lies.

 

There are cyclists and there are motorists. I can guess which you are.

 

REDUCTION OF TRAFFIC ON ALTERNATIVE ROUTES

WTF??? a reduction of traffic on alternative routes can only mean that they would prefer this route, so by that logic thus increasing traffic on this route, defeating the purpose entirely and more importantly abolishing benefit 1. (REDUCED TRAFFIC CONGESTION)

are they unaware of what they just said??

 

Seems obvious - the people using alternative routes will only use the A49 again if the new junction does reduce congestion.

 

I also see no real provision for the traffic coming up long lane turning right out of town (which is the majority of the queing traffic at peak time) but two lanes for the miniscule traffic turning left towards town.

 

There's four lanes out of Long Lane - two south to A49 and one straight ahead and one right. What matters is how long traffic from Long Lane gets on each phase.

CLOSURE OF ACCESS FROM A49 TO DENSHAM AVENUE

 

well traffic has never been a problem here I use this junction plenty of times to avoid joining the aforementioned queue of traffic turning right out of town when I'm trying to go straight across towards dallam. but they spin it like we can a left turn onto long lane, whereas in fact this lane already exists in the one they are closing, all they are doing is forcing people coming down northway to have to join long lane right turn traffic, which they previously would have skipped by jumping straight onto winwick road and not causing congestion.

 

So you come out at that side access and cut across two lanes on the A49 to get in the outside lane to turn into Hawleys Lane? How do you do that unless other drivers let you out? You who will not let buses out of laybys?

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Vic,

 

your link to the Milton Keynes roundabout vs lights is very interesting; however it just doesn't apply with most of the ones in Warrington (with the slight exception of the Crosfield roundabout) because it states in the document that in order to get a benefit, the roundabout has to be of a decent size (which many of the main arterial ones in MK are whereas the ones in Warrington are not) it also requires that traffic can be stopped on the roundabout with lights without being detrimental to the flow of traffic exiting the roundabout at other sections, but because of the high volume of lorries that go down Hawleys Lane that will never happen because they always block the roundabout up when turning.

 

As another point (and maybe a money saver if councillor Kennedy is reading).... why do we have traffic lights on roundabouts that are in operation 24/7? There have been occasions that I have driven back from down south and come off the M6 at Lymm and hit traffic lights on the roundabout at Crosfields at 4 am and stopped there while the lights went through their "cycle" and finally got round to where I was waiting to move off. Surely the electricity to run these things costs money and the thing would work perfectly well as a roundabout when only 4 or 5 cars every 10 minutes are using them at that time in a morning?

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Vic,

 

your link to the Milton Keynes roundabout vs lights is very interesting; however it just doesn't apply with most of the ones in Warrington (with the slight exception of the Crosfield roundabout) because it states in the document that in order to get a benefit, the roundabout has to be of a decent size (which many of the main arterial ones in MK are whereas the ones in Warrington are not) it also requires that traffic can be stopped on the roundabout with lights without being detrimental to the flow of traffic exiting the roundabout at other sections, but because of the high volume of lorries that go down Hawleys Lane that will never happen because they always block the roundabout up when turning.

 

Well, yes, that's why the plan is to replace the A49/Long Lane roundabout with a four-arm signalled junction. Traffic turning right from A49 to Long Lane blocks the outside lane for traffic going straight ahead north. The new layout will have two lanes straight on, and one for turning right. It's hard to see how it would not improve things.

 

No doubt the facilities for pedestrian and cyclists will annoy some people but I always want to give priority to NMRUs who are open to the elements.

 

(Non Motorised Road Users....)

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As another point (and maybe a money saver if councillor Kennedy is reading).... why do we have traffic lights on roundabouts that are in operation 24/7? There have been occasions that I have driven back from down south and come off the M6 at Lymm and hit traffic lights on the roundabout at Crosfields at 4 am and stopped there while the lights went through their "cycle" and finally got round to where I was waiting to move off. Surely the electricity to run these things costs money and the thing would work perfectly well as a roundabout when only 4 or 5 cars every 10 minutes are using them at that time in a morning?

 

Come off it Baz, you're asking the planners to think outside of the box.

If what I read on here, they can't get it right now, without asking them to do something sensible.

 

You are right though. I can't think of any lights that need to be working between 8pm and 6 am.

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