DS Posted October 30, 2009 Report Share Posted October 30, 2009 I know I have raised this issue before (a long time ago!) but again I have avoided a collision at the junction of Knutsford Road and School Road by the skin of my teeth. The problem is caused by cars (occasionally taxis) tearing up the inside lane when I am signalling that I am turning left from the outside lane into School Road. The annoying this, these people seem to think I am the one at fault. But I'm not! I have checked and I am not allowed to "filter" into the bus lane to enable me to turn left. I can be booked if I do so and some unfortunates have in fact been booked. The only solution seems to me to be removing the bus lane. Possibly moving it back towards Latchford so that left-turning motorists CAN perform a filter movement. The bus lane also causes problems when attempting to turn right OUT of School Road. There are also problems caused by the fact that a taxi firm has its HQ on this junction and there is also a burger-bar type business on the corner. Add to that a bus stop and pedestrians blocking the view towards Latchford and the fact that motorists coming from the new Warrington Bridge frequently seem to exceed the speed limit and you have a recipe for disaster. I don't want to suggest traffic lights but I can't really see anything else to solve THIS problem. To make matters even more annoying, there is hardly ever a bus in sight! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Kennedy Posted October 30, 2009 Report Share Posted October 30, 2009 Possibly something for the local Councillors to get involved with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted October 30, 2009 Report Share Posted October 30, 2009 Do Council Officers still take any notice of Councillors?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Kennedy Posted October 30, 2009 Report Share Posted October 30, 2009 Depends which Councillors Observer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted October 30, 2009 Report Share Posted October 30, 2009 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter T Posted October 31, 2009 Report Share Posted October 31, 2009 Possibly something for the local Councillors to get involved with. Are you on the wacky backy Paul? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter T Posted October 31, 2009 Report Share Posted October 31, 2009 Depends which Councillors Observer. True. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazj Posted November 3, 2009 Report Share Posted November 3, 2009 The problem is caused by cars (occasionally taxis) tearing up the inside lane when I am signalling that I am turning left from the outside lane into School Road. The annoying this, these people seem to think I am the one at fault. But I'm not! I would beg to differ on the point you raise here DS and that is the fact that taxis are allowed to use the bus lanes legally; makes you cutting in front of them your fault, regardless of whether you are indicating or not. It is your responsibility to ensure the road is clear for you to make your manouvre, not for the taxi to avoid you!! You wouldn't pull across the path of a bus would you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vic Posted November 4, 2009 Report Share Posted November 4, 2009 I know I have raised this issue before (a long time ago!) but again I have avoided a collision at the junction of Knutsford Road and School Road by the skin of my teeth.The problem is caused by cars (occasionally taxis) tearing up the inside lane when I am signalling that I am turning left from the outside lane into School Road. The annoying this, these people seem to think I am the one at fault. But I'm not! I have checked and I am not allowed to "filter" into the bus lane to enable me to turn left. I can be booked if I do so and some unfortunates have in fact been booked. The only solution seems to me to be removing the bus lane. Possibly moving it back towards Latchford so that left-turning motorists CAN perform a filter movement. The bus lane also causes problems when attempting to turn right OUT of School Road. There are also problems caused by the fact that a taxi firm has its HQ on this junction and there is also a burger-bar type business on the corner. Add to that a bus stop and pedestrians blocking the view towards Latchford and the fact that motorists coming from the new Warrington Bridge frequently seem to exceed the speed limit and you have a recipe for disaster. I don't want to suggest traffic lights but I can't really see anything else to solve THIS problem. To make matters even more annoying, there is hardly ever a bus in sight! So even though there's very little traffic using the bus lane, you still can't check before moving into it? (not just for vehicles but for cyclists.) How do you manage changing lanes on motorways? The bus lane obviously does its job, allowing public transport priority to reach the lights (and moving it back would reduce that priority). Removing the bus lane would hardly help in exiting School Street to turn right, with more traffic in both inbound lanes. You're not going to get traffic lights there. If you're that worried, turn left and go round Bridge Foot. If you identify this is a serious road safety concern, you risk the engineers deciding that left turn only is the only sensible remedy (as at Calver Road). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DS Posted November 4, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 4, 2009 Baz I agree - when it is a taxi or a bus. But on the vast majority of occasions the vehicle in the bus lane is a car, exceeding the speed limit and intent on jumping the queue. I have checked and the legal position is that I cannot move into the inside lane until I reach the junction. I know people who have been booked by the police (or warned on some occasions) for filtering into the bus lane as they approach the junction. So when I reach the junction, if there is ANY vehicle approaching from behind in the bus lane I have to stop (holding up all the traffic behind me and thus defeating part of the purpose of the bus lane anyway). Thus, Vic, the situation is entirely different to changing lanes on a motorway where you are travelling at speed and can filter from one lane to another. Today when I approached the junction there was nothing behind me in the bus lane. I signalled I was turning left and the car behind me in the outside lane immediately pulled into the bus lane and started to overtake me on the inside! The lady driver looked quite startled when I shook my fist at her! I think the real problem is that people don't seem to realise that the bus lane continues beyond School Road and think they can cut a corner getting into the nearside lane after the junction. The other problem of course is that people travel too fast in Knutsford Road in both directions but I suppose nothing can be done about that. I probably do the same - it's human nature. Scrapping the bus lane is the obvious solution because it does very little to improve traffic flows anyway. Another point is this: SHOULD taxis be allowed to use bus lanes? Most of them seem to have no passengers anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evil Sid Posted November 4, 2009 Report Share Posted November 4, 2009 i have been pulled up by the police for using a "bus lane". he was set to read the riot act etc when i calmly pointed out that as it was quarter to ten i was entitled to use it as it was only a "bus lane" between 7.30 am until 9.30 am. it was funny really as when i stopped it was in plain sight of the sign that had the information. he gave me a slightyl sheepish look and i wondered if he was going to give my bike a good going over to check if it was road worthy. i had the feeling that he was new to the area but i always make sure that when i do use the "bus lanes" that are marked like this that i am outside the hours stated just in case. on a slight aside. went into town yesterday and was driving along observing the speed limit when i was overtaken by a police car, he was doing about thirty at a guess. although tempted to take his number and report him for speeding i had the thought that i would then be a target for every police car within a forty mile radius. the speed limit around town centre is now 20mph. not that many seem to know this even the buses and as for the taxis well when have they ever worried about things like that only joking all you taxi drivers i am sure that you never exceed speed limits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazj Posted November 4, 2009 Report Share Posted November 4, 2009 Just about every bus lane in the entire town is an ill-thought knee jerk reacation! Look at the one outside the Peace Ranch.... I have seen traffic cops pulling people for using that and yet not one bus has ever been seen to use it as it puts the bus driver into the wrong lane at the lights! The Knutsford road one is again a bad idea as it lets a few buses through at peak times carrying a few people (or even when full only about 60 people) and yet stops about 150 cars from getting to their journeys end! Most bus lanes in most big towns are on routes that carry a lot of peak time bus and taxi traffic; whereas in Warrington there are very few buses on the routes where the lanes are which is why motorists get frustrated when they see all that open expanse of road.... and as you say it is human nature to exceed the speed limit ocasionally to get to where you are going a little quicker, they would say it is human nature to use the empty space to get to their destinations equally as quick!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DS Posted November 5, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 5, 2009 It's early days, but I may have solved my problem. Today, I did not signal my left turn until I reached the junction. I then virtually stopped, signalled and turned. All the traffic behind me stayed dutifully in the outside lane. Had I signalled earlier (as I did yesterday) the car behind me would have assumed I was going to move into the bus lane to turn left at the traffic lights and would probably have done the same, thus putting me in the situation of either stopping or turning across the bus lane knowing there was a vehicle approaching behind me and thus risking a collision. Trouble is, most drivers either don't know of the existence of School Road or assume nobody turns into it! Which given that it leads to a school, a taxi firm, numerous other business premises AND the Old Road pay and display car park is a bit of an assumption! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Kennedy Posted November 5, 2009 Report Share Posted November 5, 2009 Another point is this: SHOULD taxis be allowed to use bus lanes? Most of them seem to have no passengers anyway. I understand that WBC have deemed them to be public transport and therefore on a par with buses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vic Posted November 5, 2009 Report Share Posted November 5, 2009 Scrapping the bus lane is the obvious solution because it does very little to improve traffic flows anyway It's not designed to improve general traffic flows. It's designed to let buses get past the queue. Without the bus lane there would just be two lanes of queuing traffic, none of which would get to and through the lights any quicker. If the priority given to buses means that a car owner gets the bus instead of driving, then that does improve traffic flows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazj Posted November 5, 2009 Report Share Posted November 5, 2009 It's not designed to improve general traffic flows. It's designed to let buses get past the queue. Without the bus lane there would just be two lanes of queuing traffic, none of which would get to and through the lights any quicker. If the priority given to buses means that a car owner gets the bus instead of driving, then that does improve traffic flows. and after all the years that these misplaced bus lanes have been in place, they do not alter the congestion in the morning one iota because people find it cheaper to travel by car than to pay the ridiculously high bus fares. Giving priority to a bus carrying 60 people and slowing down a few hundred others in the process is just nonsense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vic Posted November 6, 2009 Report Share Posted November 6, 2009 and after all the years that these misplaced bus lanes have been in place, they do not alter the congestion in the morning one iota because people find it cheaper to travel by car than to pay the ridiculously high bus fares. Add in parking charges and bus fares are not that ridiculous. Giving priority to a bus carrying 60 people and slowing down a few hundred others in the process is just nonsense.How do you reckon one bus slows down hundreds of cars? Bus lanes don't slow down other traffic, except the two or three vehicles that miss the lights because a bus has been given priority. Bus lanes are usually designed so that they do not add to congestion, they just spread it out a bit. Take away the Knutsford Road bus lane and you'd not get any more cars through the lights at Bridge Foot. Has removing the Winwick Road northbound bus lane improved car journey times? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazj Posted November 6, 2009 Report Share Posted November 6, 2009 When I say slow down other road users, what I mean is that for a period of 2 hours or so, a whole lane is devoid of vehicles except for a few buses (which incidentally are not nose to tail down the entire length of the road) So by restricting the lane to buses only you are preventing a better flow of traffic. As I said before, I am not against bus lanes vic, but where bus lanes are placed in most other towns is where a lot of different buses from lots of different routes all come together and it eases their passage to the depot or bus station. Warrington isn't like that; because of the river and the way the town is laid out, the main arterial roads such as Knutsford Road, Wilderspool Causeway, Cromwell Avenue etc. all tend to serve one housing estate or possibly two, and the number of buses really do not warrant having bus lanes in many peoples opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazj Posted November 6, 2009 Report Share Posted November 6, 2009 Has removing the Winwick Road northbound bus lane improved car journey times? I do not have such detailed information, but I would imagine it has to some degree as it used to cause a backlog going back round the corner past the Jaguar dealers as cars were forced to pull into one lane. The past recored of this bunch of incumbants in the Town Hall is not to good anyway..... The one on the nearside of Sankey Way at the roundabout was removed because the bus lane was in the nearside lane and the lane for heading into town (where all the buses go) was the third lane..... that was like that for years and caused tailbacks because people didn't use it and then had to pull across it to turn left to go down towards the hospital. The one outside the Peace Ranch I have already mentioned..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Kennedy Posted November 6, 2009 Report Share Posted November 6, 2009 Has removing the Winwick Road northbound bus lane improved car journey times? Interestingly enough I think it has since traffic no longer has to move from the inside lane to the outside one, and the congestion that that used to cause. Probably also means that the speed camera has extra takings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vic Posted November 6, 2009 Report Share Posted November 6, 2009 But it still gets congested - only now the buses are stuck in the congestion. True, in heavy congestion, without the bus lane it will take a bit longer before the traffic is stacking back to Tesco and beyond, but it's in heavy congestion that buses need the priority, otherwise they can't keep to time and then people say they're unreliable, and they get out the car and make the congestion worse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Egbert Posted November 6, 2009 Report Share Posted November 6, 2009 I know of very few (if any) car owners who use the buses at all. Even pensioners who are entitled to a bus pass don't use them if they have a car! Nothing short of a total ban on cars will make most of them change! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazj Posted November 6, 2009 Report Share Posted November 6, 2009 I know of very few (if any) car owners who use the buses at all. Even pensioners who are entitled to a bus pass don't use them if they have a car! Nothing short of a total ban on cars will make most of them change! Probably true Egbert. We could start with a ban on police panda cars and get them out on the streets again!! vic is right about buses having to run on time, but there just insnt enough room on our roads here in Warrington to enable both to run smoothly together. When this town was redesigned back in the early 70's it should have been better thought out with regards to transport routes.....especially where the acadamy and Smiths is. There should have been the big expressways built to take traffic around the town instead of channeling everything through it But hey ho, lets make do! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimmyMac Posted November 6, 2009 Report Share Posted November 6, 2009 Couple of points. * Most of the bus lanes in Warrington, with the possible exception of Knutsford Road, haven't really claimed any roadspace from car users. There are the same number of lanes available to cars, they are just narrower than they used to be. Winwick Road was a prime example of this, originally one very wide lane in each direction (because back in the day the trams used to run in the middle of the carriageway). * Peak time congestion tends to be caused by commuters. Commuters can save a fair bit of money on bus fares (depending on their journey and how often they travel) by buying a season ticket: they can also then use the bus for other purposes at no additional cost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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