Longford Improvement?

[observer]

ww news: a Gov Planning Inspector has decided that a Gypsie caravan site will improve the Longford area!

[Agamemnon1]

Working on that theme perhaps all the houses should be flattened and everyone given a caravan. That would really make Longford the place to be .

[Dizzy]

Well I don't think it's fair

 

Hundreds of residents objected, the local councillors objected and the WBC's planning officers/dev control REFUSED it.

 

But not to worry eh the government 'Inspector' says 'Yes'. Wonder where he/she lives then

[Paul Kennedy]

Here is the Planning Inspector's decision, it makes interesting reading:

 

http://www.pcs.planningportal.gov.uk/pcsportal/ShowDocuments.asp?Case=COO.2036.300.8.1256287&docView=DECISION

 

It is worth remembering that travellers are given special rights, and I post as someone who represents the Ward with the Borough's largest travellers site and who led the Cartridge Lane campaign.

 

PS I notice that the Appellant used the services of an expert on travellers sites:

 

My name is PHILIP BROWN. I am a Bachelor of Arts with Honours in the subject of Urban and Regional Planning. I am a member of the Royal Town Planning Institute with over 25 years experience of planning matters in Local Government and private practice.

 

I am a sole practitioner, trading as PHILIP BROWN ASSOCIATES, and specialising in assisting gypsies and travellers to obtain planning permission for residential caravan sites, mostly on appeal.

[observer]

Seems he knows how to tinker with the planning system!

[Eagle]

A caravan chaser amongst the ambulance chasers.

[Dizzy]

Here is the Planning Inspector's decision, it makes interesting reading:

 

So basically it is just an overspill site for the ever expanding 'temporary' : Walton site then. It is getting a bit cramped there these days

 

Being fair though, I am only aware of one incident from the Walton site over the years they have been there and they do tend to keep a check and close eye on any temporary travellers who occasionally decend within the area.

 

 

Still don't think it's right though, especially the fact that they will be awarded costs for the appeal

 

Wish I'd have known it was that easy as I'd have bought the land myslef for all my relatives to live there in static caravans.

My dad would have loved it as would my other half, nephew and son

[Bazj]

The pikeys should have rights when they pay tax, council tax, road tax, VAT and every other bloody tax we NORMAL people have to pay. Until then they should be moved on as soon as they decide to infest an area with their filth.

 

They are scum and always will be. And as for the lawyer who is defendfing them, I would make his front garden a traveller site and see how he likes it......

[vic]

The moderators might want to consider whether "pikey" is acceptable language on here. It's a very imprecise insult and deeply offensive to travellers (which is why it's used).

 

But you can't have it both ways - with travellers avoiding tax

because they're travelling, but stopping them establishing semi-permanent (and well kept) sites where they do pay tax.

[Bazj]

The moderators might want to consider whether "pikey" is acceptable language on here. It's a very imprecise insult and deeply offensive to travellers (which is why it's used).

 

But you can't have it both ways - with travellers avoiding tax

because they're travelling, but stopping them establishing semi-permanent (and well kept) sites where they do pay tax.

 

Why is it inappropriate to use a term which may upset someone who has made a lifestyle choice to drag their kids and families around the roads of the country being hated and objected to by almost the whole community where you turn up?

 

Gypsies as you may prefer to call them, are not a race; they are a group of people who have no respect for hard working and law abiding citizens of whichever country they travel in. As seems to be the case in our liberal noncy country these days, everyone is a special case and deserves bucket loads of cash and resources poured on them, except of course for the ones who generate and hand over that cash (taxes) in the first place......

[Evil Sid]

if they establish a permanent site at what point do they cease to become "travellers" and start to become "residents".

 

i know that if you have a caravan on a holiday site you can only live it for 46 weeks out of 52 without being liable to pay council tax.

 

so if the "travellers" stay on the site for more than 46 weeks do they have to pay council tax or do they have some sort of exemption as it only a "semi permanent" site

[Dizzy]

A rather good point Evil S

 

I always presumed that the static 'travellers' on the Walton site paid council tax just like the rest of us. I also presumed they paid all other forms of tax too as their businesses were run from there and they had an identifiable place of residence

[vic]

The 46 weeks is to do with the Council's licence for a holiday caravan site and Council Tax is not payable on holiday caravans (the whole site being subject to non-domestic rates). As a cheap place to live, it may be worth getting temporary accommodation for the "closed" period. And some people on "holiday" sites may try to stay all year (risking the operator's licence), getting full services without paying full Council Tax.

 

Otherwise, permanently sited caravans are subject to Council Tax (usually Band A).

[observer]

Ever tried getting Council Tax from Travellers Vic?!

[Paul Kennedy]

I notice East Herts Council have a very informative website on Gypsies & Travellers.

 

http://www.eastherts.gov.uk/index.jsp?articleid=5606

 

plus some other "interesting" ones:

 

http://www.eastherts.gov.uk/index.jsp?articleid=5597

 

http://www.thisistotalessex.co.uk/latestnews/BRENTWOOD-Land-row-gipsy-slips-council-tax-net/article-1383977-detail/article.html

 

http://www.torridge.gov.uk/index.aspx?articleid=2120

 

http://www.hblearning.co.uk/media/circular_summaries/2009/0901/A1v2009_Full.pdf

[Bazj]

I notice East Herts Council have a very informative website on Gypsies & Travellers.

 

http://www.eastherts.gov.uk/index.jsp?articleid=5606

 

plus some other "interesting" ones:

 

http://www.eastherts.gov.uk/index.jsp?articleid=5597

 

http://www.thisistotalessex.co.uk/latestnews/BRENTWOOD-Land-row-gipsy-slips-council-tax-net/article-1383977-detail/article.html

 

http://www.torridge.gov.uk/index.aspx?articleid=2120

 

http://www.hblearning.co.uk/media/circular_summaries/2009/0901/A1v2009_Full.pdf

 

Thank you Labour!!

[Dizzy]

Dont you mean 'thank you Paul'

[vic]

 

Thank you Labour!!

 

It was the Tories in 1994 who removed the 1968 duty (The Caravan Sites Act) on certain local authorities to provide sites (whilst retaining the power to do so). Not that all authorities ever got round to it - the Labour Council in Warrington didn't get far with proposing a site just across the M6 at jn 21. People objected....

 

Since then, the shortage of suitable accommodation nationally for gypsies and travellers has been exacerbated by the closure of many sites. And that means both unauthorised sites, and an increase in gypsies and travellers buying their own sites (and many just buying ordinary houses).

 

I fear to ask this, Baz, but where do you want them to go?

[Bazj]

Vic,

 

well the obvious place for them to go (if they are of say Irish descent) would be to go travelling around say..... Ireland perhaps? or maybe the fact that their own government are so quick to wash their hands of them may be an indication of their likeability.

 

Why are we (The Taxpayer) always expected to foot the bill for every waif stray and vagabond that wants to claim to be some kind of ethnic minority? Vic, you may wonder about the rise of the BNP and such groups, but it is clearly bloody obvious in my eyes; we are taken for mugs. It isn't the old British spirit of being able to help someone in distress anymore, it is all about helping EVERYONE regardless of what they think of us, what they intend to do or how they intend to fit in.

 

The gypsies are not integrators into this great multicultural experiment, they are loners and outsiders and have nothing but contempt for our laws and values. The time my wife stood in the off license in Westbrook with her mate and watched 3 gypsy kids (caravans on the old restaraunt plot next to ASDA); no older than 9 or 10 come in and pick up bottles of whiskey and other booze and calmly walk out again; tells you something about their parenting skills too I would argue

[Paul Kennedy]

(and many just buying ordinary houses).

 

 

Just like the rest of us then, some of whom then go "travelling" for a couple of weeks each year in caravans or stay static caravans in caravan parks.