observer Posted September 18, 2009 Report Share Posted September 18, 2009 What's the point of OffGen, when they can't force the Energy Companies to lower their tariffs in the face of lower wholesale prices? We were told, this notional and false competition would keep prices low - but it's clearly not working. If they can nationalise the banks, I'm sure they could re-nationalise gas and electric - and get back to normality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asperity Posted September 19, 2009 Report Share Posted September 19, 2009 And you think that nationalised gas and electric would be cheaper? Better get back to cloud cuckoo land Obs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted September 19, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 19, 2009 They would be ACCOUNTABLE to Government, who are ACCOUNTABLE to the people - get it?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inky pete Posted September 19, 2009 Report Share Posted September 19, 2009 What, like the nationalised banks (accountable to the government, who are accountable to the people) have all instantly stopped paying massive bonuses for failure, re-instated all the small business overdrafts they called in, and stopped automatically applying un-lawfully high overdraft charges for going a little into the red? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asperity Posted September 19, 2009 Report Share Posted September 19, 2009 They would be ACCOUNTABLE to Government, who are ACCOUNTABLE to the people - get it?! Worked really well before privatisation didn't it - NOT!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazj Posted September 19, 2009 Report Share Posted September 19, 2009 When a French company (EON) buys up our electricity companies and puts up prices here while lowerering prices in France; you know there is a sticth up going on!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dizzy Posted September 19, 2009 Report Share Posted September 19, 2009 We're with EON and our prices have just come down. Employed ther service of a free 'we can get it cheaper for you' phone company who rang us a few weeks ago and they couldn't actually find us a cheaper tariff than the one we already had with EON. Although the company did inform us that after they checked they found that we were now locked into another rolling yearly contract with EON so even if they had managed to find us a cheaper supplier (which they couldn't) we couldn't have changed over until next July after receiving the opportunity by EON to refuse their next offer. Now that doesn't seem fair as I don't recall getting an opt out letter .... not that it matters though if they are really the cheapest of course Anyone know what other suppliers are currently charging, maybe we could all compare unit prices etc for both for business and private supplies Might be an eye opener as I believe prices can vary quite a bit with the same supplier as discounts and enticements are given to boost their new sales in a given week/month Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoffrey Settle Posted September 19, 2009 Report Share Posted September 19, 2009 They would be ACCOUNTABLE to Government, who are ACCOUNTABLE to the people - get it?! Are you suggesting that this is a good thing or not, I'm not clear, especially with the addition of the smilies? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
disgusted Posted September 19, 2009 Report Share Posted September 19, 2009 They would be ACCOUNTABLE to Government, who are ACCOUNTABLE to the people - get it?! Are you suggesting that this is a good thing or not, I'm not clear, especially with the addition of the smilies? You never know with our Obs, there is no place where a smiley is not appropriatte Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
disgusted Posted September 19, 2009 Report Share Posted September 19, 2009 They would be ACCOUNTABLE to Government, who are ACCOUNTABLE to the people - get it?! Worked really well before privatisation didn't it - NOT!! Exactly, OffGen are useless, but re-privatision is not an answer. What's the point of OffGen, when they can't force the Energy Companies to lower their tariffs in the face of lower wholesale prices? We were told, this notional and false competition would keep prices low - but it's clearly not working. If they can nationalise the banks, I'm sure they could re-nationalise gas and electric - and get back to normality. I do agree with your point on OfGen though Obs. I had to use these guys earlier in the year, after my supply was changed, allegedly at my request, although this was not the case, and it was a foul up. Despite telling my 'new' supplier that I hadn't asked to move, they kept coming back saying I had. My old supplier wouldn't talk to me, as I had 'requested a change of supplier'. Eventually after 8 months I get a letter from my old supplier telling me that I had been switched in error! Really, you think???? Of course I now have a backlog of 8 months power to pay for. OfGen were very good in explaining what I could do, but they couldn't do anything, they do nothing more than keep a record of complaints. An absolute and total waste of time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dizzy Posted September 19, 2009 Report Share Posted September 19, 2009 Youve got me worried now Fatshaft .... how could your supplier be changed without you personally requesting and signing for it Ooooh flip.... what may I have inadvertantly done in my quest for cheaper business electricity Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted September 19, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 19, 2009 Inky: the Banks arn't actually "nationalised"; the Government are now the major share-holder, presumably have seats on the Board; but certainly are not dictating the management or culture. The Utilities were "privatised" and sold off cheaply, like the railways, by the Tories in a dash for cash- thus stolen from the majority of the public to fund tax cuts to the rich. Then, to give the appearance of competition, in an industry using the same pipe lines, storage tanks etc; we had seperate companies supposedly "competing" to keep prices low. Well, this clearly isn't the case - IS IT? Prices are static or rising, whilst at the same time wholesale prices are dropping - so much for "competion", so much for "privatisation". And just to rub it in - the Banks were always the key component of the "private sector" - until the crash - when they suddenly appealed for help from the tax-payer to save them, hoping that the public would pick up their toxic assets accumulated through incompetance, then allow them on their merry way to repeat the same processes of greed all over again - thus the myth of the "private" sector should, to any rational person, now be broken. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asperity Posted September 20, 2009 Report Share Posted September 20, 2009 If private ownership is a failure, and public ownership is a failure what is the remedy Obs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted September 20, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 20, 2009 That's now the big debate/conversation that is required post-crash. I believe the drive and energy of the market is like nuclear fusion, needed for economic progress but socially destructive if not harnessed by moral constraints in the form of regulation. Because we now live in a global economy, such constraint needs to be applied internationally (hence Brown's crusade at the G20 etc). So I don't think the dead hand of Government needs to be involved to the extent of micro-management, thus involvement in traditional State monopolies needs to be more arms length. So it's a pick and mix solution, socially responsible enterprise - if that's not an oxymoron. But we need to recognise that some services, essential to our (that's us, the people), wellbeing and the development of a sound infrastructure platform in which our economy can thrive, requires greater public control - E.G. Security,Transport, Housing and Energy, all of which are essential to our lives and not a matter of customer preference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt Kije Posted September 20, 2009 Report Share Posted September 20, 2009 Public ownership failed because government refused to fund modernization. Private ownership does not work because share holders come before everything else. Any government will not take power back into public ownership but the current model does not work. A new model is needed, One that puts the customers first Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asperity Posted September 20, 2009 Report Share Posted September 20, 2009 Fine words but they don't constitute a solution Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted September 20, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 20, 2009 There are more important and expert people than I, wrestling with "a solution" - but I think I've identified the problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asperity Posted September 21, 2009 Report Share Posted September 21, 2009 Obs, the problem in YOUR eyes is that private businesses are making profits that YOU don't agree with. If everyone took the same view that you do then the pressure for reform would be there. The fact that the pressure isn't there means that you hold a minority view. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted September 21, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 21, 2009 Not at all Asp: as my previous posts indicated, I have no problem with the private sector or reasonable profit margins - just think WE (the people) should decide what's reasonable - and before you say "the customer has a choice, thus can pressure prices down" - in the case of Energy we don't really have a choice and are suseptable to regular "rip offs". As for being of a "minority opinion"; not so in the case of Rail re-nationalisation, where polls now regularly record a 70% majority in favour of re-nationalisation, it takes time for the peny to drop! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inky pete Posted September 21, 2009 Report Share Posted September 21, 2009 "the customer has a choice, thus can pressure prices down" - in the case of Energy we don't really have a choice and are suseptable to regular "rip offs". Perhaps you should turn your attention to the water utility companies Obs. They each have a total monopoly on their supply areas so their customers really DON'T have any choice. Their prices are supposedly regulated by our oh so trustworthy and accountable government, and they still manage to rip off customers and make vast profits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dizzy Posted September 21, 2009 Report Share Posted September 21, 2009 Completely agree with that one Inky. They have us left right and centre and there's not a thing we can do about it... and they know it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter T Posted September 21, 2009 Report Share Posted September 21, 2009 Guess it would be difficult to run the "Buy British" campaign these days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted September 21, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 21, 2009 Interesting that "water" has been mentioned: essential to life, we have an abundant supply, although we don't store or harness it very well. Used to be owned by the public, then sold off by the Tories, and in turn bought out by foreign Companies - SO, we don't even own, and thus control, a commodity that we all rely on to live. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter T Posted September 22, 2009 Report Share Posted September 22, 2009 What do you expect when folk don't look outside of the bubble? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
disgusted Posted September 22, 2009 Report Share Posted September 22, 2009 Youve got me worried now Fatshaft .... how could your supplier be changed without you personally requesting and signing for it Ooooh flip.... what may I have inadvertantly done in my quest for cheaper business electricity Apparently someone had put a wrong house number on a form, so despite the name being totally different, oce the wheels were in motion, my 'old' supplier had no way of stopping the switch. If the 'new' supplier says I have changed, my 'old' supplier has apparently got to wash their hands of me, whatever protestations I may have. An absolute shambles imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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