Peter T Posted August 31, 2009 Report Share Posted August 31, 2009 It can't do the livestock and wild life a lot of good either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Kennedy Posted August 31, 2009 Report Share Posted August 31, 2009 Alas, traffic is not a licensing matter. With regards to noise nuisance, as a result of the judgement of the District Judge at the Appeal hearing a couple of weeks go, it is now the case that precedent has been set and that the noise experienced by the residents is not deemed to be a nuisance. I am waiting for a transcript of the judgement, but my understanding is that it will be very helpful to Cream for their future applications, and very difficult for local residents to make objections on the grounds of noise nuisance. The four valid reasons for objecting to a licence are: The prevention of crime and disorder Public safety The prevention of public nuisance The protection of children from harm Remembering that this is a big event, indeed the biggest event in the locality, any objections will have to be substantive. Whilst this event remains commercially viable, the landowners continue to rent out the land ( it is often said that Creamfields is the most remunerative "crop" that they will ever have on their land) and the statutory bodies and to a lesser extend residents are unable to come up with substantive and valid objections, then Creamfields will be remaining where it is for the foreseeable future....and Cream know that. Sorry to be brutal in my analysis, but that is the reality of the situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ericsandfamily Posted September 1, 2009 Report Share Posted September 1, 2009 Thanks for the info Paul, its really helpful and like you say in black and white I doubt for one minute that Creamfields would be denied a licence for next year or so on, what makes me smile is that the council say oh your complaint on nuisance noise is logged and will go towards any licence objections etc next year, well if thats the case why are Cream selling tickets for 2010? Seems to me they are VERY VERY SURE of their licence don't you think? It amazes many residents when we receive a leaflet of support from the police stating how they will not tolerate drinking in the streets around the venue and away from the festival, people doing so will have a removal order for 48 hours and so on, then you see (yes this is true) a car full of festival goers throw a can of beer out of the drivers side of the car under the police officers noses onto the road, lads in fact drinking and talking to the police with the police doing nothing! It's incidents such as this that just make me laugh, tents at the side (yes the side) of the road as festival goers didn't feel like leaving so they pitched their tent on the grass outside the venue? There seems to be a bit more than just a public noise problem here, it needs to be addressed before next year, people should enjoy themselves of course but residents need to feel comfortable in their own homes without too much disturbance. Thanks for reading my post and have a good evening to all. Regards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pedro Posted September 1, 2009 Report Share Posted September 1, 2009 Creamfields on Daresbury and Walton agricultural land owned by two farming concerns has exposed the over lapping and conflicting Government legislation of recent years. On the one hand we have the 2003 Licensing Act and Government policy by way of Tourism Quangos supporting open air events in rural situations while at the same time farmers are paid under Countryside and Environmental Stewardship Schemes to create and maintain natural habitats for wildlife in the countryside and since 2006 all local authorities have also had a responsibility for the countryside, known in modern speak as 'biodiversity duty' under the 2006 NERC Act. Unfortunately, both Warrington and Halton Councils have given no consideration to their biodiversity duty under the 2006 legislation by way of at the very least monitoring the probable impact a 30000 crowd with ridiculously loud music, cars, camping, fairground and all that goes with the two days event, has on the natural habitat, birds and wild animals. This year Halton Council did not query a Hedgerow Removal Notice for sections of hedges to be ripped up for Creamfields despite being informed by me and a local Parish Council that the lengths to be removed exceded the requirements for Fire and Safety regulations. As for the farming landowners they will probably go on receiving their grants from Natural England for preserving the countryside for most of the year and then starting all over again when they have been paid by Creamfields for allowing the destruction of their previous efforts - what a crazy world. Unbelievably these anomalies are ruled as irrelevant to the Licence Application or the recent Appeal which was concentrated on the issue of whether or not noise from the event creates a public nuisance. On the basis of the Appeal Judge's decision the public is not allowed to determine what is a nuisance - an inconvenience to be tolerated but never a nuisance - who said the law is an ass ?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Kennedy Posted September 2, 2009 Report Share Posted September 2, 2009 As for the farming landowners they will probably go on receiving their grants from Natural England for preserving the countryside for most of the year and then starting all over again when they have been paid by Creamfields for allowing the destruction of their previous efforts - what a crazy world. Indeed it is Pedro. There is no way that landowners should receive both a grant (from hard pressed taxpayers) and a fee from Cream. One or the other but not both. If I am sent full details and the address of Natural England, then in my capacity as Borough Councillor for the Ward, I will write to them regarding this matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dizzy Posted September 2, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 2, 2009 If I am sent full details and the address of Natural England, then in my capacity as Borough Councillor for the Ward, I will write to them regarding this matter. do you have internet access Paul.... Details can be found on http://www.naturalengland.org.uk/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Kennedy Posted September 3, 2009 Report Share Posted September 3, 2009 I do, but I need the actual field details and contacts that Pedro has, I will then refer to these. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeithR Posted September 3, 2009 Report Share Posted September 3, 2009 do you have internet access Paul.... how else would he post on a forum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter T Posted September 3, 2009 Report Share Posted September 3, 2009 Keith, you have to make allowances. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Kennedy Posted September 3, 2009 Report Share Posted September 3, 2009 do you have internet access Paul.... how else would he post on a forum Psychic powers Keith. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dizzy Posted September 3, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 3, 2009 PS KeithR and Peter T..... I'm not that stupid My comment to Paul about him having internet access was a joke.... I was teasing him Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter T Posted September 3, 2009 Report Share Posted September 3, 2009 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dizzy Posted September 3, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 3, 2009 Sarcy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter T Posted September 3, 2009 Report Share Posted September 3, 2009 moi???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pedro Posted September 3, 2009 Report Share Posted September 3, 2009 I do, but I need the actual field details and contacts that Pedro has, I will then refer to these. You need to look at Natural England's Magic maps (Multi-Agency Geographic Information for the Countryside) and their office for the North West is the Crewe Address on their website. You will find that the majority of the agricultural land in your Ward is registered under the Entry Level Stewardship Scheme - no wonder - it's money for old rope - especially if you can get away with cashing in on leasing your acres for a Pop Festival for 3 years without Natural England knowing anything about it !!! Bearing in mind that much of your Ward is countryside who is responsible in WBC for their Biodiversity Duty under the 2006 NERC Act ??- I would like to know why our Council appears to have ignored the impact of Creamfields since the Act came into force - and of course the same applies to Halton BC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcowap Posted September 23, 2009 Report Share Posted September 23, 2009 Hi Guys Ive just registered on this site to reply (although my family on my mothers side are from warrington ) Im 23 and i visited creamfields this year for the first time. Upon arriving, I was in a large queue of traffic and thought to myself all the residents on these country lanes must get fed up with it all and all the traffic ! I was there all weekend from 9am saturday to 11pm sunday when i drove home. When i was there i saw no trouble or violence. The event was heavily policed with sniffer dogs and there was lots of supervisers and people in yellow jackets. The organisers did very well in making sure everyone got into the event with least disruption aswell which was good. When i left at 11pm on the sunday, we got told to drive out quietly. I know the event produces a lot of noise but there arnt many places in the U.K where you can hold an event of such size that nobody will hear so i do sympathise with you there. I live close to a building and grounds in wigan called haigh hall and every year they have "haigh festival" for local bands etc. I can hear the noise from there and its not so bad in the day but at night you just have to turn the telly up. Great sports for puttign up with the thousands of peopl and the noise ! But creamfields is an amazing event and showcases the best DJs from around the world and peopel come from europe to see. I really cant wait till next year, If one of you good sports fancys giving me a bed for the night instead of a tent, it will be greatly appreciated ! Jonathan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evil Sid Posted September 24, 2009 Report Share Posted September 24, 2009 welcome to the forum and good post. as you say it is always a problem as to where to hold such events. if they found a deserted island in the north sea no doubt somebody from an oil platform would complain about the noise levels with regards the traffic disruption i did not go out of Warrington that weekend so did not see any. would normally have gone that way to get to father in-laws but as the event was on we made plans to go earlier in the week and again after the event had finished. look forward to future posts it may bring a bit of sanity to the forum (but i am not holding my breath) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter T Posted September 24, 2009 Report Share Posted September 24, 2009 As Evil Sid's post. Welcome to the Forum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Posted September 24, 2009 Report Share Posted September 24, 2009 I will third that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Posted September 24, 2009 Report Share Posted September 24, 2009 Yes. Welcome to the forum, even though I don't support your views. You admit it is virtually impossible to find somewhere to hold an event like this without it causing a nuisance for somebody. Simple solution: Don't hold them! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sha Posted September 24, 2009 Report Share Posted September 24, 2009 I support Adam's views. It's easy to knock the objectors if you yourself are not affected, but many people were! People have a right to quiet and peaceful enjoyment of their homes would you really think the same if it was next door to you? I found the noise annoying and I live some distance away. As well as increased crime in the area there was massively increased traffic, meaning increased congestion and increased pollution. What actually upset me most was that the traffic problems were severe enough to prevent an ambulance getting through to Stockton Heath where a man lay in the street unconscious. I was witness to this for approx 40 mins but others had called an ambulance quite a while before I was there. I don't know if that poor man is even still alive, but I can't imagine he and his friends and relatives thought the knock on effects of Creamfields were just a weekend blip!. How this particular site ever got a licence is beyond reason ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazj Posted September 24, 2009 Report Share Posted September 24, 2009 You should have seen the traffic congestion we had here in Westbrook when the opened the IKEA before building a motorway junction to cope with it all!! all that was OK'yed by the council too!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asperity Posted September 24, 2009 Report Share Posted September 24, 2009 I'll vouch for you there Baz, I used to live in Callands and it was murder. Took them long enough to sort out the new junction too!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcowap Posted September 24, 2009 Report Share Posted September 24, 2009 Sha ! ... you musnt of read my post thoroughly, Like I said I have an anual event at the back of my house every year and thats a rock festival! Im not into Rock Music at all and can hear it loud and clear from mine and it goes on till the early hours. Plus I live on one of the busiest main roads in wigan and that affects me 365 days of the year. The answer to your post is yes i do still feel the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pedro Posted September 24, 2009 Report Share Posted September 24, 2009 Some poor sods were less fortunate - personal effects nicked from tents and one tent and contents completely taken. As for locals fed up with noise from the event over every August Bank Holiday Weekend since 2006, the two who put their heads above the parapet and had the 'audacity' to appeal Halton Council's granting of this year's licence, without any change in noise control from previous years, the District Judge, in dismissing their appeal accepted Creamfields plea that noise is not a public nuisance and any turning down of the sound might spark a riot (I guess if 3000 near neighbours got out of bed and rioted against the noise levels that would be a different matter !!) - and the appellants had their noses well and truly rubbed in it when the lady judge awarded costs of ?13k against them and would hear nothing of the Government's guidelines stating that costs should be the exception rather than the rule in appeals under the 2003 Licensing Act which was supposed to encourage greater public debate in licensing matters. At the appeal hearing Halton Council's solicitor cleverly used Warrington Council's chief Environment Officer as his main witness - to the extent that after a couple of hours of questioning he declared that the sound levels last year were not in his view a public nuisance - having openly admitted that during the 2008 Creamfields he had tested noise levels in local homes and found them 'unacceptable'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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