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Thinking the unthinkable?


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With the recession causing an increase in unemployment (particulary amongst the young) and an estimated benefits bill of around ?200billion: is it time to re-think our approach? :? At the moment, public institutions that can't afford to fund their workforce, will create redundancies - thus turning tax-payers into tax-consumers, paid for by other tax-payers. :shock: Would it be naive to suggest, that the money being used to pay the dole, was used to retain staff in post? :? As for the youths, once they get into the habit of not having to get up in the morning, they become unemployable and idle hands often get up to mischief - so: why (as a condition of their dole receipts), arn't they placed on the Council books, and used to clean our streets etc; at least it would get them into the routine of working? :?

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i am currently unemployed and have just been told that i cannot get jobseekers as i do not qualify.

 

a) because i have not had enough contributions in the last two years

B) because i have to claim as a single person (long story) and am getting a pension that pays me more than what the jobseekers allowance is.

 

not being a carer or single parent or disabled i cannot get income support.

so i may qualify for a reduced council tax bill but now have to pay for all dental,prescriptions,eye tests and such.

 

going to be interesting when i next go to sign on as i now have the option of not bothering, unless i have to to get enough contributions to qualify for my pension when i reach 60/65/70 or whatever the retirement age happens to be by then :(:x:lol:

 

on a plus side going for an induction course for ASCO (whoever they are) this morning so i may be working again soon. :)

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Evil Sid ask for a pension contribution assessment form (can't remember its proper title). If you have less than 30 years of NI contributions then you need to sign on so that they are paid for you.

 

There are many people like you trapped as you describe. Although you won't get any money or assistance you can get your NI paid which will secure your state pension for the future.

 

Try not to let the system grind, I was only speaking to someone of Tuesday who is in a similar position, in his case he still has some savings which he has to live off.

 

Don't let the system get you down and good luck.

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Sorry to hear of your plight Sid, which underlines the complexity of the current system - such that many don't even bother claiming their entitlements. You need to keep signing on though, to maintain your NI contributions, which will affect your future pension. The reason I raised the topic though, was a concern for a generation of youngsters who; if they don't get into the habit of "working" tend to fall into the habit of "not working"; despite the pityfull nature of dole payments - which leads to a culture of "not working", and can lead to criminal activity. A complex subject which requires a simplified system to address it, that is both more generous but also conditional. :shock:

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  • 4 weeks later...

Is it possible that Tory Central Office are getting tips from this Board? :? Seems I.D-S has discovered that folk won't take low-paid jobs cos they lose benefits and finish up worse off - OK in theory, as there needs to be some form of transitional support from benefit dependency into work BUT - are the jobs there in the first place?! :? Seems also, that the Tories will be going heavy on "means testing" BUT - will this make the system even more complicated? :?

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Sid, i don't know your age but would pension credits be an option?I believe these can be paid from late fifties to 65 on the assumption that you would have difficulty getting a job in that age group & that they open up a multitude of other benefits.

 

 

Obs, what alarms me is that very group that do not want work for various reasons are the very age group that the government needs in work to provide the fuel to keep the benefits system of the future operating satisfactorily.

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Correct: that's why some form of "conditional" dole arrangement is required, they get a job, any job; and pay is topped up with dole money. :? Having said that, the dole being paid to some youngsters nowadays, wouldn't keep me in fags; so it seems Mum and Dad are taking the strain - and they wonder why the wealth gap is increasing. :roll::twisted:

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The problem is H, that we're between a rock and a hard place on this one. You can't top up wages with dole money IF folk arn't working, and they can't be working if there are no jobs. :wink: Of course, one way would be to tolerate over-manning in the public sector (some would argue adequate manning), in order to provide the jobs in the first place. :?

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I wouldn't have a problem with over manning in the public sector if the majority of the un skilled jobs like bin man etc. were paid wages comensurate to the job; minimum wage and just above and the like

 

Instead, we have bin men earning 20 and 30 grand a year with overtime and then some part time femaile school dinner lady gets wages parity which puts the costs up even more.

 

We can't sustain stacks of workers in the public sector earning wages they wouldn't get in the private sector.... just won't work!

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because of my particular circumstances it works out as follows.

 

as Mrs Sid is unsuitable for work (due to various reasons) our joint claim for JSA hit a snag. (she had been passed a fit to work by a town doctor, despite having a doctors note for twelve months).

 

in order to get round this we were asked to supply a second doctors note and she would be deferred from having to seek employment. we did this and then were told that despite supplying the doctors note the decision of the town doctor took precedence (thus a note from your own doctor counts for nothing and it was pointless them asking for it)

 

so after a bit of wrangling they finally decided that the only way they could get round that hurdle was to treat me as a single person.

now a single person only gets ?64.00 per week to live on. as my pension pays me ?80.00 a week then i do not get any money.

 

however i am down as getting JSA and all the associated entitlements.

now the council wanted proof of my savings and such so that they could work out how much council tax benefit i was entitled to. this and several other documents were supplied including a confirmation of benefit letter.

 

two days later i receive a call on my ,mobile asking if i was still with my partner. i answered yes and then was asked why i was getting JSA as a single person. after having explained for the tenth time about things the person at the other end said he would have to speak to his boss and get back to me.

 

i finally received a letter saying that my council tax was now sorted out with the appropriate figures.

 

what it does mean is that i am now only getting my pension which is about ?20.00 less than what the government say i need to live on as a married couple.

 

i do not think i qualify for pension credit as i am still in my early fifties (52 quite soon)

on the bright side it is quite funny looking for work. i hear people at the jobcentre saying that there is no work about and yet when i look on the website for retail work in a ten mile radius i got 64 results for the last fortnight alone. office work only netted me about 7 and three of them were in london(quite a daily commute).

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The problem is H, that we're between a rock and a hard place on this one. You can't top up wages with dole money IF folk arn't working, and they can't be working if there are no jobs. :wink: Of course, one way would be to tolerate over-manning in the public sector (some would argue adequate manning), in order to provide the jobs in the first place. :?

 

But they could earn that dole by doing the jobs that the council have cut, and litter picking will never dry up.

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The problem is H, that we're between a rock and a hard place on this one. You can't top up wages with dole money IF folk arn't working, and they can't be working if there are no jobs. :wink: Of course, one way would be to tolerate over-manning in the public sector (some would argue adequate manning), in order to provide the jobs in the first place. :?

 

But they could earn that dole by doing the jobs that the council have cut, and litter picking will never dry up.

 

I wonder if there are legal implications though of people on the dole "working" a 40 hour week ?

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Thanks Sid, for bringing us all down to earth on the apalling realities of the benefits system which is mean, overly complex and beaurocratic, and has folk living in dependency of some pen pushing civil servant giving you the correct information and not c***king up the funds that you are dependent on. :x As for Baz's point on "equal pay", I agree, it's complete PC nonesense to equate a binman with a dinner lady - the jobs have nothing in common, other than the fact they both work for the Council. Having said that, most jobs have derived a "rate" based on job evaluations and TU negotiations over years, and is something we have to accept, because if we start down the road of evaluation in the court of public opinion, I trust Politicians, Bankers, Royalty, Footballers and Pop idols would be first in the queue?! :shock: So the principle that needs to be applied is the rate for the job, which needs to be shared between the Government (dole) and the Employer (wages), which in the case of the public sector are both funded by the tax-payer; the difference would be, that the tax-payer would be getting additional workers for their money. :? PS. Peter, I'd go along with the litter picking idea IF they gave them a brush and shovel, rather than those pincer thingies that can't pick up a fag end! :wink:

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