Jerry Posted March 6, 2009 Report Share Posted March 6, 2009 I saw this film on independent cable last night and it's a wonderful re-creation of my homeland as envisioned by the South winning the Civil War. It's a mockumentary with talking heads, newsreel clippings, animation in phony commercials, and alternative political leaders. It's droll fun through the tears it brings. It portrays the rebels as extending slavery to the west coast, enslaving those yellow creatures that had slipped in from the Orient to build our railroads and wash our clothes. It continued to put womanhood on pedestals within cages, and it extended it's cotton empire to include bananas and coffee plantations south of its previous borders. It sort of incorporates the Thomas Jefferson and Sally story within a faux southern dynasty of politicos (My Gran Pappy did not have sex with that woman!) and JFK was a Republican who sought to free the slaves in 1960 but got assassinated down south. Our brightest northern citizens such as Mark Twain fled to Canada, and women's liberation up there took hold, also the migration of our more athletic types saw Canada's collection of gold medals exceed those of the Confederate states in the Olympics. Classic films extol the virtues of white supremacy and our forefathers wisdom. Yes, only the BBC or our European cousins could have told the story so well. Bravo, bravissimo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted March 7, 2009 Report Share Posted March 7, 2009 Isn't there a presumption that regimes/cultures cannot change - events/circumstances/ individuals in any society gradually effect change, although perhaps at variable rates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry Posted March 7, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 7, 2009 I presume you are very, very correct. This is idle speculation that amuses me. For want of a nail, the horseshoe was lost, for want of the shoe, the rider was lost, for want of rider's leader's stategy, the battle was lost, for want of the battle the nation was lost, and all for the want of a nail. What if -- is the basis for all fiction stories. But fiction can be helpful to understanding our culture. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry Posted March 7, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 7, 2009 Oops. Wrong thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Posted March 7, 2009 Report Share Posted March 7, 2009 Nice to see you posting again Jerry - sounds like a film worth watching. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted March 7, 2009 Report Share Posted March 7, 2009 A further point on your original post Jez; Lincoln gave his emancipation speach in the 1860s; we then had a 100 years of segregation in the Southern States - so, perhaps the inevitable Union victory in the Civil War, didn't make all that much difference?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry Posted March 9, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 9, 2009 You said it, Obs! President Rutherford Hayes withdrew the Union Army and let the freed captives fend for themselves, and they soon fell into segregated apartheid situations. And the Dixie politicos have held command over our armed forces and congress ever since with their disciplined brotherhood. Republican Ron Paul (I think from Texas) congressman, on TV last night said that the Civil War was not necessary and it was wasteful. The North could have closed down the slave trade and then purchased the freedom of all the slaves and set them free. (sigh) Simple minds have simple solutions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted March 9, 2009 Report Share Posted March 9, 2009 Just re-watched part one of a civil war trilogy (Gods and Generals); which was quite historically accurate and used re-enactors as extras. A point was made in the diologue; that the CSA was fighting "for their freedom", in which case, such a belief in "freedom" should have ended slavery! The only surprise about the American Civil War, is that it lasted as long as it did; with a two to one advantage in manpower, and overwhelming industrial resources, the Union should have finished the job in half the time, based on the sound "anaconda plan" of Winfield Scott. However, it appears Union Generals tended to be rather incompetant and suffered from political interference from Washington; conversely the Confederate Generals, led by Lee, seemed to have more flair and finesse, in outmanoevering Billy Yank! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry Posted March 9, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 9, 2009 I don't agree with the 'interference from Washington' -- Lincoln begged McLellan (?) for eons to get moving, take initiative, do something instead of drill field practice forever. It seems our northern volunteers and conscripts were not anxious to engage their lives to save the Union and the enslaved down south. Then too, the South had the home field advantage in the struggle. I was hoping to provoke an analysis of the British role or non-role. The BBC CSA version suggested British supplies could have swung some victories to Lee, but it was not forthcoming until conditions were met. I suspect that the Brits at the time still remembered The War of 1812 and didn't see the Union as the greatest force for their interests, in addition to their interest in the South's cotton crops. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted March 10, 2009 Report Share Posted March 10, 2009 Think you may find, that the Brits boycotted the Southern cotton exports, which produced unemployment and near starvation in Lancashire - still, most working folk supported the Union. Re political interference; your correct, Washington did continually keep "spuring on" their Generals, irrespective of military circumstances. Lincoln called for 75,000 volunteers at the beginning, despite General Winfield Scott's prediction that it would take over 300,000 men and two to three years to put down the rebellion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry Posted March 10, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 10, 2009 An old colleague of mine from L.A. County Supt's office wrote me that our mutual colleague, Harry Turtledove, PhD, wrote an alternate history of the Civil War. The only one I could find at Abe Books was SO FEW REMAIN, and from the jacket it appears the two sides had a truce, and then went at each other in 1881 on the western frontier with the Apaches, the Mexicans and other interests at stake. When I was at the County office Turtledove was churning out novels about the Romans and their wars. Probably studied a bit about the weapons and tactics and stuff. He also did World War I and II. I remember when he retired from the office because his books brought him enough to live on. Yes, I'm aware that the Brits opposed slavery, and the USA was the last to join the civilized world (did the Saudis ever join?) I think the BBC CSA mockumentary made it clear the South could not get the Brits to supply them -- and it must have been because the South wanted to exchange cotten for weapons and such Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted March 10, 2009 Report Share Posted March 10, 2009 A "civilization" - " gone with the wind"! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry Posted March 10, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 10, 2009 (gasp) I'm guilty of referring to our Southern states as 'civilized'. I agree -- the word is what we hoped they were -- our history books are so optimistic and sugar coated. I remember in college even, in the 50s, the professor arguing that the Civil War was 'to preserve the union' -- not to free the slaves. Now that I think about it, I suppose he was right. Did you see Martin Scorsese's New York Gangs? The Irish immigrants in NYC in 1860s rioting because they declined to be cannon fodder on behalf of the darkies. Another recent film (that went nowhere) took the lid off the Irish immigrants in the U.S. Army sent into Mexico in the 1800s, deserting their regiments, hiding in the haciendas of friendly senoritas, and then fighting against the U.S. Army on behalf of the Mexican people. And your earlier post suggesting that the post civil war period reverting to 'no significant change' was spot on. In some ways the imposed apartheid was as brutal as slavery itself. Owners had less maintenance costs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted March 10, 2009 Report Share Posted March 10, 2009 Interesting film "New York Gangs"; whilst I assume it was historically correct, it appeared surreal! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry Posted March 11, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 11, 2009 If you thought Scorces's was surreal, I shudder what you would think of a film called WARRIORS. Some places on the 'net I see people using lines from that modern adaptation of the Oddessey (after a meeting in Central Park the gangs must return to their home turf meeting obstacles along the way) "O Warriors!! Come out to pla ay!" I don't seek out Daniel Day Lewis films but he was decent in Last of Mohicans and Incredible Lightness of Being. Haven't seen his latest where he sips others milkshakes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted March 11, 2009 Report Share Posted March 11, 2009 Think "last of the mohicans" can be termed "a classic", well worth a place in one's vidio library. Thought Wes Studi played a good part in that, he also played Geronimo in another film. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry Posted March 11, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 11, 2009 If the indigenous people had more fierce looking warriors like him the white colonists would have got back on their ships and returned to Europe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted March 11, 2009 Report Share Posted March 11, 2009 There was a TV drama series of films about the complete history of N/America from the Pilgrim Fathers on - can't think what it's title was though - but it was quite good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry Posted March 13, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 13, 2009 If it played in this market I'm completely unaware of it. We have two Public stations in So. Calif. KCET and KOCE (Orange County) and they often show programs of substance without popular advertising. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted March 16, 2009 Report Share Posted March 16, 2009 Just watched Scorcene's "the Departed" and "Gangs of New York" is on again tomorrow night! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry Posted March 16, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 16, 2009 My grandson and I have watched THE DEPARTED a half dozen times and GANGS OF NEW WORK maybe three times. We had previously seen the Chinese version of 'departed' as a police story with an undercover officer -- think it's English title was Internal Affairs. Anyway, didn't you love it, that both versions have a Celtic Kilted bagpiper for the funeral ceremony. I'm 73 and have told my family I want a bagpiper at my funeral too. It creeps me out in life, but at that point, I won't care, will I? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted March 17, 2009 Report Share Posted March 17, 2009 The scary thing about "gangs of New York" is that it happened, but more scary, it is now happening, on some Chav housing estates in the UK and no doubt in the inner Cities of the US. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry Posted March 17, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 17, 2009 Back in the 1970s there was a popular adverb-adjective-noun "mau mau" for political threats that included gangs that would put blood on the streets. At least here in California among hispanic-named politicians. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted March 18, 2009 Report Share Posted March 18, 2009 Think that was the name given to anti-colonial revolutionaries in Kenya? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry Posted March 19, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 19, 2009 Yes, it was a code word for intimidation. It may have started with university students demonstrations -- I know of one incident where they broke into a campus office and set it on fire. It was not Viet-nam protests, it was about college policy on student aid -- to force the policy to fire an administrator. Use was 'we may have to go mau mau on their backsides' - to put it politely. It seemed that no matter what area the word was used with, the connotation was 'extreme measures with extreme consequences. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.