inky pete Posted March 9, 2009 Report Share Posted March 9, 2009 I have a sneaking suspicion that the public sector's willingness to pay well over the odds for agency staff isn't helping here. I know a couple of qualified and experienced people who won't take a permanent local government job precisely because they can do so much better by going via the agencies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted March 9, 2009 Report Share Posted March 9, 2009 There is also a culture of using the services of "consultants" on the grounds that the required skills are not available "in house"; but perhaps Officers prefer outsoucing their tasks to leave themselves with less of a workload?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoffrey Settle Posted March 15, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 15, 2009 Are agency staff necessarily more expensive, quite often they are employed to cover for peaks and then dismissed during the troughs. As for consultants they are brought in for their expertise and knowldege that doesn't exist in house. My old company feature heavily in running services of Westminster CC, Birmingham CC, and various others. They have developed transfoamtional skills to help turn these organisations around(5 years). Contracts are only for a limited period of time and competition to win these contracts is very very high with price being a big factor as are effeciency, value for money, perormance etc etc but it has given employment to many Warrington people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Kennedy Posted March 15, 2009 Report Share Posted March 15, 2009 Maybe the recruitment criteria for council officers should include a range of appropriate technical skills, or the ability to acquire those skills so that "consultants" are not required. Of course it is not only the state sector that has a love affair with "consultants" ...the wealth creating sector has as well....and maybe that it is why it is no longer wealth creating. I read a report sometime ago that the UK had the highest use of "consultants"...pro rata in the world....so is there a link between that fact and the reason we are in such a dire economic state. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Kennedy Posted March 15, 2009 Report Share Posted March 15, 2009 There is also a culture of using the services of "consultants" on the grounds that the required skills are not available "in house"; but perhaps Officers prefer outsoucing their tasks to leave themselves with less of a workload?! Or not carry the can when things go wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inky pete Posted March 15, 2009 Report Share Posted March 15, 2009 Are agency staff necessarily more expensive? Not if used correctly for, as you say, short term cover. But a quick look at the various internet job sites shows open ended contracts for qualified Social Workers advertised at over ?20 per hour - that's the equivalent of over ?40,000 per annum - far in excess of what is on offer for similar permanent positions. Hardly a surprise then that councils are struggling to fill permanent posts when suitable candidates can simply wait for them to be offered via the agencies and pick them up at that sort of premium There's also plenty of supply teaching jobs at ?150 per day and speciallist nursing jobs at up to ?30 per hour. Maybe it's time for the employers (via the LGA, perhaps?) to get their heads together and agree ceilings on what they are willing to pay for various types of agency staff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoffrey Settle Posted March 15, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 15, 2009 Maybe the recruitment criteria for council officers should include a range of appropriate technical skills, or the ability to acquire those skills so that "consultants" are not required. Paul should that also apply to Councillors? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inky pete Posted March 15, 2009 Report Share Posted March 15, 2009 Maybe the recruitment criteria for council officers should include a range of appropriate technical skills, or the ability to acquire those skills so that "consultants" are not required. Paul should that also apply to Councillors? Nah, we get the opportunity to sack them for poor performance every few years - without them going running to Tribunals. I can't believe that Sharon Shoesmith is still insisting that the fact that her department was a woefully inadequate shambles - resulting in the un-necessary death of a child - was not her responsibility. A decent private sector manager would never have let their department get that bad, if they were being starved of resources from above they would have resigned in protest and moved on. She obviously didn't have a clue what was going on, and it was her job to know. I think she should be in court for Corporate Manslaughter, not an Employment Tribunal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted March 15, 2009 Report Share Posted March 15, 2009 Errm, wern't they "private sector" managers in the banking industry?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inky pete Posted March 15, 2009 Report Share Posted March 15, 2009 Yep, and public sector ones in charge of the railways, the health service, the MoD, public data security, exam boards, immigration, the justice system, the BBC.......... ......need I go on? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted March 15, 2009 Report Share Posted March 15, 2009 Nope, but I'm still trying to discern the difference - there's no shortage of incompetants nowadays, public or private! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter T Posted March 15, 2009 Report Share Posted March 15, 2009 Hasn't it replaced common sense and is now a job requirement? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wahl Posted March 16, 2009 Report Share Posted March 16, 2009 who cares about the new structure so long as there are fewer people employed in ridiculous overpaid artificial jobs. le Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoffrey Settle Posted April 4, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 4, 2009 I suppose that the leaner meaner approach strucyured approach adopted by the private sector is now taking place in the public. How many of us have been called to that annual meeting at work where the directors say not to worry this will be the last in the series of redundancies? I believe that Ian Marks is talking about ring fencing, but can't define it and has promised that those who remain will not have their pay reduced but protected in a frozen state. Now where have I heard that before? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazj Posted April 4, 2009 Report Share Posted April 4, 2009 Well if it brings my extortionate council tax bills down..... bring it on Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Kennedy Posted April 4, 2009 Report Share Posted April 4, 2009 Nope, but I'm still trying to discern the difference - there's no shortage of incompetants nowadays, public or private! And somehow they all manage to get very well paid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Kennedy Posted April 4, 2009 Report Share Posted April 4, 2009 Maybe the recruitment criteria for council officers should include a range of appropriate technical skills, or the ability to acquire those skills so that "consultants" are not required. Paul should that also apply to Councillors? Yes to some extent I think it should Geoff. Maybe having a basic CV as part of an election address would enable voters to learn a little more about the candidates on offer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Kennedy Posted April 4, 2009 Report Share Posted April 4, 2009 [quote name="inky pete I can't believe that Sharon Shoesmith is still insisting that the fact that her department was a woefully inadequate shambles - resulting in the un-necessary death of a child - was not her responsibility. A decent private sector manager would never have let their department get that bad' date=' if they were being starved of resources from above they would have resigned in protest and moved on. She obviously didn't have a clue what was going on, and it was her job to know. I think she should be in court for Corporate Manslaughter, not an Employment Tribunal.[/quote] I agree with you and personally get fed up with such people who get found out, then try and plunder the public purse. Given that the UK has in effect run out of money, all applicants trying to pick the pockets of taxpayers should be told there will be no pay outs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazj Posted April 4, 2009 Report Share Posted April 4, 2009 But if it is proven that she has been unfairly dismissed by a couple of clever lawyers, she will get a nice payout.... and there is always the European court of lost causes that will probably find that her "human Rites" have been breached and she will cop for that payout too.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Kennedy Posted April 4, 2009 Report Share Posted April 4, 2009 I believe that Ian Marks is talking about ring fencing, but can't define it and has promised that those who remain will not have their pay reduced but protected in a frozen state. He did explain it...as he said he woul do, in a letter to a Borough Councillor which was copied to all of the others. There is an agreement with the employees' representatives over such matters. WBC as the employer will adhere to those agreements....which I happen to think are generous and rarely found in the private sector....unless you happen to be the likes of "Fred". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoffrey Settle Posted April 4, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 4, 2009 Would you like to share that definition with the rest of us Paul? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.