Tilly Posted February 28, 2009 Report Share Posted February 28, 2009 Income Tax etc - Do we really know what our contributions are intended to contribute towards? Would we understand and tolerate better, the decisions made around the use of it if we did? Council Tax - in light of the Council not having any clear unit costs for each item or unit of service provided that we have to pay for how do they calculate our Council Tax and justify it? What does it get spent on??? The only itemised part of your bill detailing where the funds are supposed to be spent is the portion that goes towards Police and Fire but why if I have no children do I have to contribute towards schools? Why do I not get charged a contribution towards that if I have children of school age? Why do those with a Council run leisure facility in their area get charged more, especially as one has to pay again to go in and they're all dreadful and in no way compete with the private venues. Its mind boggling, we wouldn't let a our gas or electric or phone suppliers send us a bill with out a detailed breakdown of what we were paying for!!! When I raised concerns about our local bins not being emptied for 6 weeks last year, on hearing I suggested I might like to know just how much the cost of my bin being emptied was and have a refund or with hold further payment of my Council Tax, funny, the bins were soon sorted out, but no one had an answer as to how much it costs to empty a wheelie bin........Why do we tolerate it??? PS - if I had a choice I'd like to opt out of the NHS and pay as I go please if anyone of any significance is reading, I can't believe ( well I can) that we dont have the choice I must point out that in no way am I reluctant to pay my way, if I knew where my money went I and I don't doubt many others would probably not object to contributing a little more if it mean't better services etc, it would improve quality of life and benifit all, I'm sure I'm not alone in wondering where it all goes, am sure that is what causes some resentment and will contribute to politicans not beign very popular with many, we instinctively tend not to trust people if there is any doubt or uncertainty or if we dont have enough facts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfie Posted February 28, 2009 Report Share Posted February 28, 2009 PS - if I had a choice I'd like to opt out of the NHS and pay as I go please if anyone of any significance is reading, I can't believe ( well I can) that we dont have the choice Of course you have a choice!! - go and live in a country that doesn't have an NHS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tilly Posted February 28, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 28, 2009 What a mindless response, are you really as dim as you come across or are you just targetting me and knocking my posts for fun? Again how mindless you must be........... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfie Posted February 28, 2009 Report Share Posted February 28, 2009 Tilly - you will need some kind of medical care in your life. The choice of opting out and pay as you go is not an option for the majority of people in this country. Your choice is 'I wil be alright jack' and bugger the rest of you. and you call me mindless Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inky pete Posted February 28, 2009 Report Share Posted February 28, 2009 Personally, I'd stay opted in to the NHS given the choice. I was over in the US twice in the past year and both times was struck by how many pharmaceutical and health insurance ads were on the TV. On in particular made me sit up and take notice, it ended with a little old lady saying, "Now I don't have to choose which of my medications I can afford." I remember thinking that it was odd that such a statement was possible in the richest country in the world. But I digress, I too would like the option of a pay as you go system for local government services. I could carry insurance to cover the cost of the Fire Service (that's how Fire Brigades started), I could pay to have my bins emptied and choose both how often this happened and whether or not I seperated my recyclables, I don't need schools, don't need social services, don't need a council house, don't use the libraries, have a private gym membership, and pay more than enough road taxes for them to be continuously re-paved in gold. I certainly don't need an over-rewarded, under-accountable bureaucracy which continues to help itself to my money whether they deliver the goods or not. Monopolies are almost always a bad thing, and local government services have to be one of the biggest ones going. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted March 1, 2009 Report Share Posted March 1, 2009 Funny that Tilly; I'm just doing battle with the Electric Company, cos they won't send me an "itemised" bill, having changed the meter - anyone got a contact number for the Regulator?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter T Posted March 1, 2009 Report Share Posted March 1, 2009 Tilly, Good post and some very good points. Ignore Wolfie, having got fed up with knocking Liverpool, he has to have a go at someone. I used to say that about the NHS when I was working. I think a lot depends on your lifestyle and postcode as to whether you need it for free when you are old. Another point about the council tax as well as not knowing where your money goes, is that you get reduced services each year. I think that you will find that one of the biggest areas that absorb the money is waste and box-ticking employees who are really needed. But I would like to know where my taxes go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Kennedy Posted March 1, 2009 Report Share Posted March 1, 2009 http://www.ofgem.gov.uk/Consumers/Complain/Pages/Complain.aspx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Kennedy Posted March 1, 2009 Report Share Posted March 1, 2009 But I would like to know where my taxes go. Bailing the banks out Peter......and they will still be doing the same when we are dead and gone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tilly Posted March 1, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 1, 2009 Tilly - you will need some kind of medical care in your life.The choice of opting out and pay as you go is not an option for the majority of people in this country. Your choice is 'I wil be alright jack' and bugger the rest of you. and you call me mindless I KNOW, am not stupid, I said "if I (as in ME) had a choice" which I know I don't at present in this country............ I would in an ideal world like to pay for what I use as and when. If you feel I'm mindless not wanting to pay for everyone elses medical bills, many of whom do not contritute but who are a massive drain on resources and pay for something I have yet and may not need to receive, fine, then I am mindless. And before you comment on the sick and frail who are unable to work etc I am not on about them My response to you suggesting I did have a choice re contributing to the NHS and that was to leave the country was the reason I used the term mindless......... I have a cat that is black, I get the feeling that you would given chance argue that it was purple with yellow stripes and pink dots so erm happy Sunday, have fun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tilly Posted March 1, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 1, 2009 Tilly,Good post and some very good points. Ignore Wolfie, having got fed up with knocking Liverpool, he has to have a go at someone. I used to say that about the NHS when I was working. I think a lot depends on your lifestyle and postcode as to whether you need it for free when you are old. Another point about the council tax as well as not knowing where your money goes, is that you get reduced services each year. I think that you will find that one of the biggest areas that absorb the money is waste and box-ticking employees who are really needed. But I would like to know where my taxes go. Dont worry Peter, as you may know I work for the Council ( for the Directorate that's disappearing but it's not but it is but it's not ) and extensive efforts and measures are currently in place to shake us up and make as many of us leave as possible, we can't cut services much more and still charge so lets get rid of half the staff ..... Common Business review - aim to avoid duplication of job, tasks and services etc , prior to Xmas letters inviting those eligible to take early or flexi retirement and asking us if we'd like to go part time, staff that leave not being replaced, ANOTHER restructure of the Council and directorates where many of us now have no clear idea if our teams/ jobs will even exist once implimented, job evalualtion started over two years ago, and although affective as of 1/4/09 employees still not party to information about their own income and job scale, it's all part of a process, aim to aggitate, goal to make any one who wants to leave, leave and end up with a few too many staff rather than far too many and those who stay are probably 80% really committed and the people the Council really want and need to be working or them, ho ho, that what I think any way and I know am not alone but it would never be confirmed officially of course. Lets hope not too many people leave, it could back fire, they could end up with out enough staff with a poor reputation and no one wanting to work for them in future. Must say I'm long over due a change and a challenge Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfie Posted March 1, 2009 Report Share Posted March 1, 2009 Ignore Wolfie, having got fed up with knocking Liverpool, he has to have a go at someone. Peter I never knock a man or a team when he/they are down As for the NHS with all it's faults it can only be better than the alternatives. Before the NHS we had thousands of 'Private' hospitals that were desperate for money. They relied on fund raising and the few people who could afford health care while millions went without. No doubt many would opt out of paying for the NHS in the belief that they will keep themselves healthy and save some money. Until, the day that they do require health care and realise that their choice is either 'pay out' or come running back to a NHS service that may no longer exist because of the number of 'opt outs'. I know which I would prefer. As someone who regularly gives to charity in the hope that some of my hard earned cash may help those who may be less fortunate, I see no problem in paying into a health service that I may or may not use but is still there for people who do need it, no matter how much it is being 'abused' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter T Posted March 1, 2009 Report Share Posted March 1, 2009 It doesn't seem 5 minutes since your last move. (I hadn't forgotten who you worked for) I would suggest that incompetence is the reason that none of you know what is happening, as the hierarchy probably don't know themselves. The problems have been there for some years. Every time the Gov. comes out with a new agenda, more people get employed for that specific idea rather than see how it could be absorbed or even if it was necessary. Looking in from the outside, one could be forgiven for thinking that the council had a job creation department that used the "Duplication system" as the formula. And sadly all these "additional" jobs come with a pension that the taxpayer has to pay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfie Posted March 1, 2009 Report Share Posted March 1, 2009 It doesn't seem 5 minutes since your last move. (I hadn't forgotten who you worked for) :? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter T Posted March 1, 2009 Report Share Posted March 1, 2009 Sorry Wolfie, I was responding to Tilly. I thought you might be in church and so didn't see you post nano-seconds before me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tilly Posted March 1, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 1, 2009 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trojan Posted March 1, 2009 Report Share Posted March 1, 2009 Opt out og the nhs whatever next opt out of payments for the police because you've never had to ring 999.? opt out of payments to the fire brigade because you have never had a fire.? opt out of payments for teachers because you are no longer in school? etc etc At first I thought Silly Tilly but then I thought more Stupid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted March 1, 2009 Report Share Posted March 1, 2009 Seems a sensible analysis! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter T Posted March 1, 2009 Report Share Posted March 1, 2009 Trojan, Perhaps you need to read the post again. I thought it was about having the option to do one or the other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbo Posted March 2, 2009 Report Share Posted March 2, 2009 Opt out og the nhs whatever next opt out of payments for the police because you've never had to ring 999.? opt out of payments to the fire brigade because you have never had a fire.? opt out of payments for teachers because you are no longer in school? etc etc At first I thought Silly Tilly but then I thought more Stupid. Spot on trojan. Can't believe the selfishness of some people who don't want to pay into a system that is for the benefit of all, but primarily benefits the poor, the young and the old. The alternative would be an American type healthcare system that caters for the rich and employed only and is the most expensive and the most inadequate system in the developed world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tilly Posted March 2, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 2, 2009 Opt out og the nhs whatever next opt out of payments for the police because you've never had to ring 999.? opt out of payments to the fire brigade because you have never had a fire.? opt out of payments for teachers because you are no longer in school? etc etc At first I thought Silly Tilly but then I thought more Stupid. Spot on trojan. Can't believe the selfishness of some people who don't want to pay into a system that is for the benefit of all, but primarily benefits the poor, the young and the old. The alternative would be an American type healthcare system that caters for the rich and employed only and is the most expensive and the most inadequate system in the developed world. I can assure you I am far from selfish but thank you for your kind comments on my views, am sure I respect yours just as much as you do mine. As pointed out maybe you should read my post properly or take it in the spirit in which it was intended rather than pouncing on it and tearing it apart............ my main concern is that there are no unit costs for anything NHS or Tax etc and so no one knows what they're really paying for as we dont get clear bills and so those spending it have free license to use the funds for what ever they wish, often mistakes, a clear bill would mean those using our money could be held accountable if something we'd paid for was not up to standard, wasn't provided or didn't work, as I said we would tolerate it with our Gas and Electric or phone bills Whilst I can see posters have enjoyed the chance to "leap" onto my comment about opting out of the NHS, yes if I had a choice in an ideal world I'd rather pay as I go for what I use, I already have to pay for part of my health care, eg dentist, eye care, prescriptions etc why stop there, but am not a fool or a "silly Tilly" ( nor an I five years old ) and realise that the system needs the capital we pay up front to function and so can appreciate and understand why we do and need to pay for a good few things whether we use them or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonzodog Posted March 2, 2009 Report Share Posted March 2, 2009 Come on Tilly, you surely can't expect to post on here suggesting that all is not completely rosy with the funding of the NHS (unless to say it is underfunded or "stop the cuts") & not get slagged off. Next you'll be trying to say that nurses earn more than the minimum wage! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Kennedy Posted March 2, 2009 Report Share Posted March 2, 2009 Tilly, do you have any insurance policies. If so, maybe best to think of the likes of the NHS, police, fire brigade etc as an insurance policy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inky pete Posted March 2, 2009 Report Share Posted March 2, 2009 As I posted earlier, Fire Brigades were originally started by insurance companies as a means of limiting the size of fire damage claims. As a business model for service provision it makes a lot of sense. The insurance industry is subject to price competition between companies, and bases it's level of charges on an assessment of an individual customers likelihood of making a claim. The public sector faces absolutely no competition, and is specifically designed to charge the most to those who use it least whilst providing the most to those who pay the least. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazj Posted March 2, 2009 Report Share Posted March 2, 2009 Except that with the Police, you pay for something that when they catch you speeding or littering or whatever, gets to screw even more money out of you!... and then when they retire after a mere 30 years of service, we have to pay for them again!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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