observer Posted February 7, 2009 Report Posted February 7, 2009 R.B.S is planning to pay out ?1billion in bonuses to staff, roughly equal to ?25,000 per employee: last year they paid out ?3billion in bonuses, with some employees getting over ?1million. Now, given that we (the taxpayers), have just rescued R.B.S and presumably part own it; will our (political) representatives put an immediate block on all and any such payments, and if emergency legislation is required to seize the money/assetts of these vultures - then don't talk about it - DO IT. Quote
Bazj Posted February 8, 2009 Report Posted February 8, 2009 Don't be daft..... of course they won't Quote
disgusted Posted February 8, 2009 Report Posted February 8, 2009 They've already said they will do all they can, however some they can do nothing about as apparently some bonuses are not performance related, but written into their contract. Quote
Paul Kennedy Posted February 8, 2009 Report Posted February 8, 2009 apparently some bonuses are not performance related, but written into their contract. What is all that about then. Maybe some of them will be getting bonuses for getting the taxpayer to bail them out. I understand that the person responsible for building up the toxic debts at RBS was paid ?40 million, ten times more than the boss of RBS. These bonuses seem fraudulent to me, so maybe the police should be called in. This whole banking fiasco is a total disgrace, and "top" bankers certainly are taking the P. Quote
Lt Kije Posted February 8, 2009 Report Posted February 8, 2009 This whole banking fiasco is a total disgrace, and "top" bankers certainly are taking the P. Agreed Quote
observer Posted February 8, 2009 Author Report Posted February 8, 2009 Given the will; a Government can do almost anything, especially if it has the support of the people on an issue: Parliament makes the laws, it can bring in new laws and can have them operate retrospectively. IMO these bankers are worst kind of criminals and require draconian treatment to correct their avarice, so let's get the "sequestrator" out of cold storage and start taking their ill-gotten gains off them. Quote
Peter T Posted February 8, 2009 Report Posted February 8, 2009 I thought that every time they brought new laws out, that the top Judges said they were illegal. Quote
observer Posted February 8, 2009 Author Report Posted February 8, 2009 Only if/when British legislation conflicts with EU legislation, thus demonstrating that OUR Parliament is now merely a talking shop, and real power is exercised by the Brussels Mandarins - yet another reason to exit the EU asap. Quote
asperity Posted February 8, 2009 Report Posted February 8, 2009 The government shouldn't have given our money to the banks in the first place!!!! Quote
safeway56 Posted February 8, 2009 Report Posted February 8, 2009 The banks are effectively on strike, had it been trades unions behaving in such a manner they would have been universally blackguarded. Governments are effectively paying banks 21st century Danegeld. Quote
disgusted Posted February 8, 2009 Report Posted February 8, 2009 The government shouldn't have given our money to the banks in the first place!!!! That is extremely naive. I understand the sentiment, but we have to support the banking system, or we fall into a 1930's style situation. apparently some bonuses are not performance related, but written into their contract. What is all that about then. Maybe some of them will be getting bonuses for getting the taxpayer to bail them out. Paul, I have no idea, but I watched Newsnight midweek where it was brought up, and apparently the govts hands are pretty much tied. I presume getting part of their salary as a bonus rather than salary must have some sort of tax advantage, hence why it is the way it is? I've never before heard of a non-performance related bonus. Given the will; a Government can do almost anything, especially if it has the support of the people on an issue: Parliament makes the laws, it can bring in new laws and can have them operate retrospectively. IMO these bankers are worst kind of criminals and require draconian treatment to correct their avarice, so let's get the "sequestrator" out of cold storage and start taking their ill-gotten gains off them. I imagine you'd be the first to complain of a police state if that sort of thing was actually actioned? Quote
Paul Kennedy Posted February 8, 2009 Report Posted February 8, 2009 I thought that every time they brought new laws out, that the top Judges said they were illegal. Maybe time to change the judges. Why doesn't the Government call the bluff of those who are meant to be paid the bonus. To get the money they would have to go to court, and the taxpayers would know who they are............. Quote
asperity Posted February 8, 2009 Report Posted February 8, 2009 Fatshaft, niaive it may be, but throwing billions of pounds of our money at the banks hasn't turned out to be so brilliant has it. Let market forces take over and the bad banks will be taken over (at a price granted) by better ones. As it is each and every one of us is in debt to the system to the tune of something like ?150,000 and rising Quote
Dizzy Posted February 8, 2009 Report Posted February 8, 2009 They've already said they will do all they can, however some they can do nothing about as apparently some bonuses are not performance related, but written into their contract. Call me stupid here..... but surely before the Government bailed out banks such as RBS with 'our' money they [the government] did actually look into contractual arrangements that were already in place with the banks such as huge employee bonuses and goodness knows what else Quote
disgusted Posted February 8, 2009 Report Posted February 8, 2009 Fatshaft, niaive it may be, but throwing billions of pounds of our money at the banks hasn't turned out to be so brilliant has it. Let market forces take over and the bad banks will be taken over (at a price granted) by better ones. As it is each and every one of us is in debt to the system to the tune of something like ?150,000 and rising I'm no expert Asp, but all the experts say Brown has handled the credit crunch very well, so based on that, no doubt more qualified opinion than you or I, then while brilliant is not something we can judge upon, certainly it seems to have been the right move. Quote
disgusted Posted February 8, 2009 Report Posted February 8, 2009 They've already said they will do all they can, however some they can do nothing about as apparently some bonuses are not performance related, but written into their contract. Call me stupid here..... but surely before the Government bailed out banks such as RBS with 'our' money they [the government] did actually look into contractual arrangements that were already in place with the banks such as huge employee bonuses and goodness knows what else Good point. Although with the fuss they are now making, perhaps it either wasn't considered, or not exactly at the top of their agenda at the time? For sure it seems like they weren;t aware of it anyway. Quote
observer Posted February 8, 2009 Author Report Posted February 8, 2009 Eh Fats, you've either a short memory or are too young to remember - Maggie's Government "sequestrated" Trade Union Assets during the Miner's Strike - so it's been done before. Quote
asperity Posted February 10, 2009 Report Posted February 10, 2009 Fatshaft, you must have been listening to different experts than I have! The BBC was it?? They're always up for a bit of Brown nosing!! Quote
Paul Kennedy Posted February 10, 2009 Report Posted February 10, 2009 Following from The Times: The bankers who led Royal Bank of Scotland and HBOS to the brink of collapse will offer a public apology today. But amid the furore over bankers? bonuses, they will also seek to point out that they have personally been ?punished for failure?, losing millions of pounds because of the meltdown in their banks? share prices. Sir Fred Goodwin and Sir Tom McKillop, respectively the former chief executive and chairman of RBS, will express their regrets at a meeting of the Treasury Select Committee. Their expressions of remorse will be echoed by Andy Hornby, the former chief executive of HBOS. and Lord Stevenson of Coddenham, its former chairman. RBS is 68 per cent owned by the Government while the new Lloyds Banking Group, formed after the rescue of HBOS by Lloyds TSB, is now 43 per cent owned by taxpayers. All four of the bankers have received extensive coaching from public relations and communications experts before today?s meeting ? in which MPs, led by John McFall, the committee chairman, are expected to question them aggressively about their role in the banking crisis. Last night, banking sources told The Times that the quartet would seek to convey ?regret and remorse? for what has happened. One source said: ?You will hear the word ?sorry?. If the opportunity comes up, Sir Fred will say he is sorry. He will be humble.? The sources said that the four would also try to convince the committee that, far from being rewarded for their failure, they had been punished for it. Another added: ?The message Andy and Dennis [Coddenham] want to get over is that they, along with all of the bank?s executives, have been punished for failure. The point will be made that all HBOS directors invested all of their cash bonuses in HBOS stock and have therefore suffered a 90 per cent loss.? It is understood that Mr Hornby, who continued to work as an adviser to HBOS on a retainer of ?60,000 a month after his resignation late last year, has seen the value of his HBOS shares fall from more than ?10 million to less than ?500,000. Similarly, Sir Fred is understood to have spent his 2007 ?2.8 million bonus on RBS shares, which have since lost more than 90 per cent of their value. The committee hearing, which continues tomorrow, is the first time that bankers have faced a public inquiry since the government rescue of their banks and at a time when attitudes are hardening against the pay and perks of senior executives. All the bankers are expected to give detailed explanations of why their banks failed. Lord Stevenson and Mr Hornby are likely to argue that regulators also played their part and will say that no one from the tripartite authorities ? the Treasury, the Bank of England and the Financial Services Authority ? had predicted the wholesale failure of an institution. Guess if they were in China, having made their speeches they would be taken away and shot. Frankly all four of them are a disgrace. With regards to "Sir" Fred's comment, If the opportunity comes up, Sir Fred will say he is sorry....he could make the opportunity right at the start, something along the lines Chairman, I would firstly like to offer my unreserved apology for my failure to run the Royal Bank of Scotland in a proper manner. Quote
observer Posted February 10, 2009 Author Report Posted February 10, 2009 Greed appears to be a pandemic affecting most people - so perhaps a punative example at the top wouldn't go amiss?! Quote
Dizzy Posted February 10, 2009 Report Posted February 10, 2009 ... and today it is reported that the RBS are to cut 2,300 jobs Not to worry though as they say it only actually equates to 2% of their workforce Bet the 2% of their employees who will find themselves on the dole queue don't see it quite that way Quote
Paul Kennedy Posted February 10, 2009 Report Posted February 10, 2009 Absolutely right Dismayed, and unlikely to get new jobs in the near future and no doubt when they do, their terms and conditions will not be as good. PS It seems the four "bankers", did make an apology of sorts, didn't seem very genuine though. PPS Somebody I mentioned as being culpable in a post sometime ago, Sir James Crosby, the former CEO of HBOS is now in the spotlight, about time as well. Quote
observer Posted February 10, 2009 Author Report Posted February 10, 2009 So it appears, in this day and age, and especially with those at the top; that one can get away with anything, providing one "apologises" afeterwards?! Quote
Lt Kije Posted February 11, 2009 Report Posted February 11, 2009 The BBC was it?? They're always up for a bit of Brown nosing! Prey tell where do you get your unadulterated news from Quote
disgusted Posted February 11, 2009 Report Posted February 11, 2009 Fatshaft, you must have been listening to different experts than I have! The BBC was it?? They're always up for a bit of Brown nosing!! It's not often I watch any news to be honest, pretty sure it was newsnight though. Quote
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