observer Posted November 3, 2008 Author Report Share Posted November 3, 2008 Errrm, nope - think I'm right on to the fundemental point behind this move - it's only gullible fools who fall for the Gov line! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dizzy Posted November 3, 2008 Report Share Posted November 3, 2008 There are valid points being raised on both sides of the arguement (or is it a discussion ) However Obs, I do think you hit the nail on the head with your last comment although it may be wise to replace the words 'Gov line' with 'Party Political Line' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted November 3, 2008 Author Report Share Posted November 3, 2008 As`both the Gov AND opposition Parties are destined for a "saving spree"; whoever is in Gov will be pursueing this policy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tilly Posted November 4, 2008 Report Share Posted November 4, 2008 I know the Government are trying as always to save money but we'd moan if they wasted it too. It is cost effective to get as many people no matter who they are into work otherwise the state has less revenue throught taxes and NI and it has to pay out in benifits BUT I dont think people that are not sick or disabled should have any priority over jobs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dizzy Posted November 4, 2008 Report Share Posted November 4, 2008 As`both the Gov AND opposition Parties are destined for a "saving spree"; whoever is in Gov will be pursueing this policy! As are the rest of us eh? You know we'd all save a heck of a lot each month if we found a way out of paying our council tax, NHI, bank charges, business rates, VAT, Corporation Tax etc etc In the current economic crisis can't we all claim for 'undue distress' caused by the inability of those who have got us to where we are today... thus writing all our debts off Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazj Posted November 4, 2008 Report Share Posted November 4, 2008 I know the Govenrment are trying as always to save money but we'd moan if they wasted it too. A bit late for that now though.... after Gordon et al have wasted hundreds of billions in the last 11 years funding civil servants that stay at home till there are jobs for them, computer systems that will never work, submarines to fight an enemy which don't exist anymore and god knows what else, saving a few quid on benefits isn't going to help! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asperity Posted November 4, 2008 Report Share Posted November 4, 2008 I know the Govenrment are trying as always to save money but we'd moan if they wasted it too. I laughed til the tears ran down my face when I read this Tilly!!! Governments NEVER try to save money, they do their best to waste as much as they can, and the present incumbents are the worst ever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dizzy Posted November 4, 2008 Report Share Posted November 4, 2008 Problem with Governments is that they are given free reign to waste ?billions in half baked ideas and changes (which often seem to be 'for the sake of change') that 'they' think we all need and after they've done it they eventually come to realise that maybe things were ok as they were originally after all Easy when it's someone elses money you are wasting eh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted November 4, 2008 Author Report Share Posted November 4, 2008 This Government have wasted ?billions over the last 10 years by merely throwing money at issues, mostly half baked ones; and tampering with life style trivia, instead of getting to grips with fundementals. Having spent ?trillions bailing out the banks and the city; they have choices as to where they get the money from: either start implimentating major savings (such as benefits cuts) or start taxing the super-rich and corporations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazj Posted November 4, 2008 Report Share Posted November 4, 2008 I bet they won't cut too may benefits..... the claimants may be NuLabs last hopes of a few votes at the next election! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted November 5, 2008 Author Report Share Posted November 5, 2008 Problem is, they'll have nowhere to go politically; as both major Parties will be committed such cuts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tilly Posted November 9, 2008 Report Share Posted November 9, 2008 I know the Govenrment are trying as always to save money but we'd moan if they wasted it too. I laughed til the tears ran down my face when I read this Tilly!!! Governments NEVER try to save money, they do their best to waste as much as they can, and the present incumbents are the worst ever. Just edited my last post only to correct a spelling error Why is what I said so funny, they all, whatever party they do try to save money or should I re word it, try not to spend any more than they have to, all of them, not perhaps to save us money but to save them selves maybe but either way they do, or they'd run out and there'd be none. Whether they get it right is another matter, some see their failings as wasteful and maybe efforts so far make some roll on the floor laugh with tears streaming down their faces.......( or maybe thats just my posts) but they all have to make sure they save and dont waste money, they dont do it very well, often they really do get it very very wrong but all the parties must try to ensure that they spend as little as they can even if that means in investing in preventative measures like promoting healthy living and spending on stop smoking campaigns for example so people dont need more costly care in later life, to getting as many people as possible into work to generate revenue, erm that was my point really, and any party what ever your values or beliefs is trying to do, it all boils down to money, if somethings changes it'll ultimately be with a view to trying to save money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted November 9, 2008 Author Report Share Posted November 9, 2008 We need to distinguish between "saving" as a euphomism for cuts, and "savings" in terms of not wasting money, and applying available resources at priorities. As I suggested in another post elsewhere: tax cuts are an option for a stimulus package, in order to increase spending, thus demand. Problem is; where do you get the money from to fund the tax cuts? By increased Gov borrowing (being considered by NuLab), a debt that will eventually have to be repaid with interest. Or, by making radical cuts in Gov expenditure, which in some instances will affect the poorest in our society (being considered by the Tories). Or, by increasing taxes on the super-rich and large corporations (being considered by the LibDems and advocated by Obama)? We currently live in a world of global fantasy economics, based on credit: which allows a Country like China to lend money to the West, to fund wars, and buy Chinese goods, whilst ordinary Chinese folk work a 12 hour day, 24/7, for a pittance. We've had a warning in this current global financial crisis, alas it appears to be going unheeded. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asperity Posted November 11, 2008 Report Share Posted November 11, 2008 What I find amusing is the idea that governments try to save money!! They are in the business of raising taxes from us and spending all of the money and sum. Hence we have a national debt the interest on which is only serviced by raising more tax! What I don't find amusing is actually paying said tax! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted November 12, 2008 Author Report Share Posted November 12, 2008 Japan has one of the highest national debts, followed by us and the Yanks: the Aussies now maintain a national surplus, which will cover the looming pensions mountain of the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfie Posted November 12, 2008 Report Share Posted November 12, 2008 Japan National Debt 194% of GDP Italy National Debt 107% of GDP US National Debt 72.5% of GDP Greece 89.50% of GDP Belgium 84.60% of GDP Norway 83.10% of GDP Hungary 67.00% of GDP Germany 64.90% of GDP Canada 64.20% of GDP France 63.90% of GDP Portugal 63.60 of GDP Austria 59.10% of GDP Netherlands 45.50% of GDP Switzerland 44.20% of GDP United Kingdom 43.60% of GDP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted November 12, 2008 Author Report Share Posted November 12, 2008 Wolfie; think you need to factor in the numerous PFI schemes and the pensions time bomb, just to get the UK right! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfie Posted November 12, 2008 Report Share Posted November 12, 2008 I'll leave you to do that Obs. Don't forget I didn't pass any exams. Further than cut and paste and I'm out of my depth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asperity Posted November 13, 2008 Report Share Posted November 13, 2008 Not to mention the billions spent on the bank bail outs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted November 13, 2008 Author Report Share Posted November 13, 2008 We supposed to be getting that back - eventually! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asperity Posted November 13, 2008 Report Share Posted November 13, 2008 I trust that you aren't holding your breath Obs! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted November 13, 2008 Author Report Share Posted November 13, 2008 Merely a theoretical point: once they have the money THEY will spend it on something else - like the overun on the Olympics for example. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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