observer Posted July 31, 2008 Report Share Posted July 31, 2008 Once upon a time, we had coal gas, supplied by a State Industry from a inexhaustable supply of coal under our feet. Then they discovered North Sea Gas and Oil, and we all had to have our cookers etc altered to use it. Then Maggie had a fight with the miners, and closed all our pits - so no self sufficient supply of coal. Then she went on to privatise the Gas Utilities - thus allowing Centrica to make over a ?billion in profits and big cream offs for the shareholders, while parts of the Country are now being hit by a 40% hike in gas prices. Seems Governments make our beds, and we have to lie in them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Kennedy Posted August 1, 2008 Report Share Posted August 1, 2008 Although it is interesting to note that large numbers of people bought shares in.....and made substantial profits from, the privatised utilities. I didn't....even though for a period of time I worked for one. Given the current situation, what I don't want to see is massive bonuses/pay rises being given to those who run these businesses, it doesn't require great skill to produce such headline profits when prices are on the up and you have a captive market. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Kennedy Posted August 1, 2008 Report Share Posted August 1, 2008 Seems Governments make our beds, and we have to lie in them. Make sure you've got plenty of blankets and quilts though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asperity Posted August 1, 2008 Report Share Posted August 1, 2008 I don't know about Centrica, but it's a matter of record that EXXON globally pays nearly $3 in tax for every $1 profit (after tax obviously!) And don't forget that pension funds are major shareholders in these big energy companies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted August 1, 2008 Author Report Share Posted August 1, 2008 And so they should (pay the tax); problem is, such companies are so loyal to their Nation that an additional windfall tax would probably send them scurrying to some off-shore tax haven - so the answer is Nationalisation overnight without compensation - that should gain their attention! As for pension schemes: the savers themselves have no choice or control over their money, it's played with by the city to maximise returns for both investors AND THEMSELVES; again a State Investment Scheme could accomodate pensions; after all when the Banks fail (ie Northern Rock), who bails them out?! Vive la Revolution! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asperity Posted August 1, 2008 Report Share Posted August 1, 2008 But these companies aren't loyal to any particular nation because thy are multinational so the chances of nationalising them are zero. And as for the government taking over private pensions - well no thank you, they already waste more than enough of my hard earned money!!! Come the revolution we will regain control of our finances not give more of it to politicians. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted August 2, 2008 Author Report Share Posted August 2, 2008 Come the revolution WE the people and the Nation will regain control over our own affairs. Multi-national companies operate within nation states, so each nation can decide on their position within the boundaries of that nation - remember the Suez Canal?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asperity Posted August 2, 2008 Report Share Posted August 2, 2008 And what example can you give of any nationalised industry giving value for money? I can see a nationalised gas industry putting up prices even more to pay for the massively bloated workforce that would inevitably be created with all the inefficiency etc. We've been there before and it doesn't work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted August 2, 2008 Author Report Share Posted August 2, 2008 Never been tried in a rational manner before, because politicians interfered in buisiness planning, as they still try to micro-manage the NHS. An arms length enterprise can be every bit as efficient as the private sector, and doesn't have shareholders skimming off the top. As for manning levels, we now know from the NHS what Thatcher's de-manning prog did; it brought back the bugs etc. Part of the problem with the latest gas price hike; is that we have insufficient storage capacity in this Country - lack of long term state planning: as a consequence, we take it out of the North Sea (OUR gas that is), pump it over to Europe for storing and then buy it back at an increased price - crazy market place or what?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Kennedy Posted August 2, 2008 Report Share Posted August 2, 2008 Come the revolution WE the people and the Nation will regain control over our own affairs. Don't think so, another bunch of people will take control and will use whatever means they can to retain control. All that is required is small government and less government at all levels, and leave people to get on with their own lives, whilst providing support for those who genuinely need help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted August 2, 2008 Author Report Share Posted August 2, 2008 Presume your refering to "the establishment", born and bred to rule over us since 1066?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Kennedy Posted August 2, 2008 Report Share Posted August 2, 2008 Part of the problem with the latest gas price hike; is that we have insufficient storage capacity in this Country - lack of long term state planning: That is true, so I guess you advocate the new planning rules that are being proposed that take local views etc out of the equation, as they are what has stopped the building of the storage capacity. I think there was a plan to have one in South Cheshire until the locals kicked up a fuss and got it rejected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted August 2, 2008 Author Report Share Posted August 2, 2008 Other than the extended period of time: any Government that really wants to achieve such objectives can do so - merely by playing the planning game. IE: Planning App goes in - locals object - Council play to crowd (voters) - app gets refused. Applicant appeals: Gov Inspector or Public Inquiry decide OR better still, Gov Minister "calls in" the application and the final "political" decision is made, and as we know locally, doesn't even have to conform with the spirit or the letter of published planning policy = Gov gets it's own way! However, the lengthy period involved does impose some long term forsight upon Governments and a capacity to make decisions, rather than dither - unfortunately our electoral system prohibits any vision or planning beyond the next election! It would also probably be simpler for a State Industry to attain planned objectives too! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asperity Posted August 5, 2008 Report Share Posted August 5, 2008 How about the latest nationalised business - Northern Rock? Doing well isn't it? Bought by the government (= us taxpayers) in a falling market,it has lost ?585 million in 6 months plus the extra ?3 billion the government has just given it. Divided by all the taxpayers this comes to ?128 each, or 70 pence per day so far. Good business? If they'd allowed Lloyds TSB to buy it the taxpayer wouldn't be paying anything. More madness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted August 5, 2008 Author Report Share Posted August 5, 2008 The reason Norther Rock was taken over, was precisely because the "private sector" had FAILED; and rather than risk a knock on effect that would destabilise our financial institutions, they (after much dithering) decided to intervene. However, it seems we could be experiencing further FAILIURES in the private sector, so N/Rock may not be an isolated case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.