observer Posted July 14, 2008 Report Share Posted July 14, 2008 - in touch with reality, indeed the political class street- wise enough to originate the ideas necessary to deal with our social malaise? The latest pathetic gem from Gordon and Co, IE: forcing kids caught carrying knives to visit victims of knife crime and Hospital A&Es; appears to be a manifestation of the liberal middle class "naughty step" culture, that bears no relationship to the realities of working class sink estates. The so-called "shock tactic" doesn't/hasn't worked with smokers, drinkers, druggies etc, as most feel "it won't happen to them". Contempory social enviroments have bred a generation of socio-paths, with no fear or respect for authority, making our streets a university of crime and a danger zone for most. What is required is a fundemental correction in attitudes and laws in relation to "the family, marriage, parenting, dicipline" etc. We have an "attitude problem" throughout society, which can only be eradicated by a system that literally breaks offenders, in order to re-build them. The power of the State to "brain wash" the young has not been unknown in history; one would hope that such "brain washing" could be positive and benign. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Kennedy Posted July 14, 2008 Report Share Posted July 14, 2008 It is worth noting that the majority of our young people are perfectly decent, and indeed no different to previous generations. It is only a minority who are causing mayhem and who need subjecting to a tightly controlled and highly disciplined environment in order to help and support them out of their downwards social spiral. It is also worth noting that older generations are themselves not paragons of virtue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted July 14, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 14, 2008 Correct Paul; but it only takes a few "bad apples" to contaminate the whole barrel. The "majority" of young "decent" folk are now reluctant to "go out", and if they do, they feel it necessary to get "tooled up" too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Posted July 14, 2008 Report Share Posted July 14, 2008 If I were ever to be unfortunate enough to end up in hospital after a stabbing, the very last thing I?d want would be to see some ?hoodie? character smirking at me. No amount of crackpot ideas will ever be as effective a deterrent as long stretch in jail. The sooner the government realises this, the sooner our streets will be become safe again. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted July 14, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 14, 2008 Trouble is, our jails are full, and the regimes a little "light touch"; a system similar to old Army training is required that literally "breaks" the individual in order to build them up again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legion Posted July 14, 2008 Report Share Posted July 14, 2008 Speaking with some authority ( I have been stabbed ) on first hearing this I thought, yes I would like to speak to these idiots who carry around knives, explain that they are idiots and that carrying a knife does not earn you respect, it makes me think they are feeble weak individuals and that a result of their actions is self perpetuating in that others feel the need to match thier actions, ultimately resulting in somones death where previously it may have resulted in a mere bloody nose. people will throught time resort to violence...it will never be stopped its inherrent in mans nature...christ our governments even do it. but what we need to do is to put british honour back into a fair fight. The one thing that occured to me about this scheme, that doesnt seem to have been picked up by all the arguments against, is that by meeting the survivor of a stabbing, it lessens the individuals feeling of severe consequence to the action of stabbing another human being, they will see me (or my likes) sat in a room, healthy and well, and therefore reinforcing the idea that stabbing somone will temporarily disable them rather than kill them, just like on TV or in games... the games not realy over, what they should do is send them to people in jail for stabbing, people who didnt try to kill, just misjudged the damage a knife can do (as I beleive most people who stab do), people who realy regret the fact that their next 10 years is in jail, for murder that they never intended to comit, and then the family of the same victim. remeber this punishment is not for users of the knife, just carriers, and thats the kind of tactics I think may make these kids (nieve as they are) think twice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonathan Levy Posted July 14, 2008 Report Share Posted July 14, 2008 The "majority" of young "decent" folk are now reluctant to "go out", and if they do, they feel it necessary to get "tooled up" too. I personally disagree with that comment. Most young people realise like yourselves that it is only a few who cause trouble and so therefore are not reluctant to go out and as for the 'tooled up' comment, again very few young people go around carrying knives and I personally along with all my friends and everyone else I know, would never dream of going out carrying a knive or weapon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted July 14, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 14, 2008 You may be in a different social strata JL (hence your politics!); but if you want to get an idea of the type involved, just catch 5 minutes of Jeremy Kyle's Show! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Posted July 14, 2008 Report Share Posted July 14, 2008 So it there isn?t enough jails then simply build some more. Carrying a lethal weapon be it a knife or a gun should be an offence that carries a mandatory jail sentence to send out a strong message that society will not tolerate such behaviour. Then, if Paul still wants to go and offer his help and support, then fine but at least these people will be off the streets where they can?t do harm. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted July 14, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 14, 2008 Yes, BUT the secret is; banging them up within a system that actually changes them into law`abiding members of society; assuming we don't bang 'em all up permanently or lobotomise them! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Posted July 14, 2008 Report Share Posted July 14, 2008 At least your last two options although draconian, would 100% solve the problem unlike any other luney tune solution on offer. I honestly believe that since judges were told to go easy and not to impose too many custodial sentences that respect for the law has deteriorated to the point where the perps just think it?s all just one big laugh. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted July 15, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 15, 2008 The ideas factory in Downing Street is on overtime at the moment - the latest gem:- evict feckless parents of perps from their Council Houses! Well that's really going to sort the problem out isn't it. So we could have whole families sleeping rough - come back Fagin - "you've got to pick a pocket or two" - talk about pathetic, half baked spin from these middle class liberals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Posted July 15, 2008 Report Share Posted July 15, 2008 When it comes to crackpot ideas, my personal favourite is the police handing out bottles of ?Angle Water? to the drunk and disorderly that carries a message about the perils of drink. So why do I get a sixty pound fine and points for speeding when they could just of easily have given me a free car air freshener with a message about the perils of speeding. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mary Posted July 16, 2008 Report Share Posted July 16, 2008 I say give everyone a tazer and be done with it! Crime as in this sort has been going on for centuries - we are no better now than in Cain and Ables time!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted July 16, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 16, 2008 Alas civilization is only a thin veneer, that seperates us from other species. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ex padgate girl Posted July 16, 2008 Report Share Posted July 16, 2008 I was watching on the news this morning about the aftermath of the typhoon a few months ago. would it not be an eyeopener for some of these young thugs to be sent to one of the poor countries and given some work to do. eg building shelters for them or digging ditches. It would cost as much as keeping them in a young offenders over here and maybe we could fit some more of the little blighters in their empty rooms. Surely it would teach them how well off they are in this country and maybe they would come back and aprechiate what they have rather than trying to destroy it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted July 16, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 16, 2008 Sure there's plently of cleaning up work to be done here, never mind abroad - problem is; how can you risk such yobs out on the streets, unless they were in a chained gang?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ex padgate girl Posted July 18, 2008 Report Share Posted July 18, 2008 I was not thinking of the violent ones (they should be breaking stones) but the ones who are alittle lost and the burglers. If they were sent abroad it would make them realise how well off they are and how valuable possesions are to people in those countries. Maybe it would give them a different outlook on life instead of learning about crime from the inside in prison. They might learn to keep their hands off other peoples belongings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted July 18, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 18, 2008 Fair point: bit like the "Peace Corps" idea, or as I've suggested "Penal Battalions" contracted to the Army and subject to Military Discipline. But the fundemental problem with these youngsters is an "attitude" problem - developed through the spoilt brat syndrome, and one has to break them in order to make them, it was a tried a tested system of military training, and it worked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ex padgate girl Posted July 18, 2008 Report Share Posted July 18, 2008 Good idea obs so why can't the government see that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted July 18, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 18, 2008 Because anything they view as remotely non-PC, is seen by them as barbaric, and doesn't fit into their middle-class concepts of the naughty step approach and giving the brat a good "talking to" - not forgetting of course - their human rights. Such is the state that liberal attitudes have brought us to - they're even talking about mixed prisons now! Perhaps that's the idea behind evicting feckless families - put the whole family in Prison, free board and lodging courtesy of the tax-payer! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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