demelzadoe Posted June 6, 2008 Report Share Posted June 6, 2008 WASHINGTON, DC -- "My colleague here showed me an overview, official study concerning U.S. detainees. It is not generally knows to the public but the U.S government now has over 30,000 (31,082 as of May 19, 2008 ) people in secret custody, all over the world. An official U.S. program of torture and 'rendition' has been going on since before 9/11 and has never stopped. A number, estimated to be approximately 3,500, have been killed during these interrogations or have died as the result of them. http://www.rense.com/general82/uglir.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted June 6, 2008 Report Share Posted June 6, 2008 Not doubting your statistics Damel: which is an indiction of how/why the USA has lossed the moral high ground and it's standing in world affairs. The US, despite it's current economic decline and it's military limitations; remains the optimimum vehicle for a new world vision and reformation of the UN. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry Posted June 7, 2008 Report Share Posted June 7, 2008 I won't deny the shame of these statistics, whether true or not. I just wonder why so many people are concerned about our 'detainees' -- when the world has millions of true victims of harsh treatment by brutal, inhuman, military or gangster regimes. Obs has the attitude that the USA may be humanity's last hope for international cooperation and United Nations possible solutions. To the extent that we've inherited a 'fairness' gene from our British forebears I share that hope. We've inherited tolerance and generosity from our Dutch forbears as well. Other nations have blessed us with their 'brain drains' as well as 'altruistic tendencies.' It's sad to contemplate the mega-corporate hijacking of our government and its thuggish activities. However I find it hard to 'look over there' when news stories focus on Islamic detainees or so called 'Palestinian refugees' when an impartial visitor from outer space would assess and then assign priorities just little bit differently. Are 4 million people starving in Africa? Are 2.5 million people being brutally exterminated in Burma? What is so special about these Islamic prisoners of war, or these fanatic Jew killers in the Middle East. Why is their cause so immediate and due remedial attention? I admit to being brainwashed when I was in the USMC. I still believe in Death Before Dishonor. But in those days honor was a little more definable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted June 7, 2008 Report Share Posted June 7, 2008 I suggest your missing a crucial point: IF the hard won liberties we have enjoyed are sacrificed at the altar of anti-terrorism; then the terrorists have won. IF we step down into the gutter of illegal detention, torture etc; we lose the very moral high ground that forms a basis for our challenging terrorism in the first place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry Posted June 8, 2008 Report Share Posted June 8, 2008 No argument from me. You are absolutely correct. However, I just don't have the energy to protest to my corporate hired representative in Congress. When Ronald Reagan went to Saudia Arabia in the first months of his first term to SELL WARPLANES to them, I knew then, it was all over. The president of the USA a munitions salesman! Why pretend anymore that we have any morality at all? If a few of Saudis favorite sons get their tits in a wringer, I'm not going to bat for them. Yes, they have already won. They are poised to eradicate all western civilisation remnants in the Middle East. I don't wish to live to see it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted June 8, 2008 Report Share Posted June 8, 2008 I agree, it's a huge mountain to climb; creating effective democratic global institutions that can bring stability and bring peace and prosperity to our tortured world; but a US led reformation (back to the spirit of the founding fathers), is about our best shot. Interesting that McCaine is talking about a "League of Democracies"; which would basically re-introduce an iron and bamboo curtain and lock us into another cold war; with all it's corruption and diffused self interests, the UN is all we've got. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry Posted June 9, 2008 Report Share Posted June 9, 2008 And the UN has said 175 timess that Israel has got to be JUDENFREI! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted June 9, 2008 Report Share Posted June 9, 2008 The UN has certainly passed a number of resolutions against Israel; that Israel has ignored - if that's what you mean?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry Posted June 10, 2008 Report Share Posted June 10, 2008 I think that was a point that Chrissy made on another thread and I was just echoing it. Until Israel's right to exist, to live, is recognized and honored, there is no reason to find anything but empty vote buying by the Arabs for a public relations santitizing of their genocidal activities. War is peace. Hate is love. What were some of the other slogans? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrissy Posted June 10, 2008 Report Share Posted June 10, 2008 One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter? Obs is right I think. The UN has to be the way forward. This current US administration is politically juvenile and morally corrupt. If they refused to fund Israel and Israel was forced to accept the Green Line we would all be in a much better position to take the moral high ground. Israel has always had a right to exist, but it should not be allowed to ignore international law by treating the Palestinians, who have an equal right to that land, like animals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted June 10, 2008 Report Share Posted June 10, 2008 Ironically, a strange case of role reversal by the Jews: victims in WW2; perpetrators now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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