Soaring Petrol/Diesel Prices - are we being conned ?

[Steve the Original]

I have to agree with fatshaft its not so much the Goverment but the big Companys who are making a huge profit yes i know tha Gov do gain with every price rise but thats only because the duty/VAT is at a % not a fixed rate. the only thing the Govermant could do is to reduce that rate but saying that the Companys will most likey then raise the price again.

 

I think the idea of striking or showing that your not happy with fuel prices is good unfortunaly over here you cant block any fuel depots or garages as by law they can and will conficate your Vehicle so all us truckers do not have a choice but to take the price rises..

 

 

Steve

[Steve the Original]

I have to agree with fatshaft its not so much the Goverment but the big Companys who are making a huge profit yes i know tha Gov do gain with every price rise but thats only because the duty/VAT is at a % not a fixed rate. the only thing the Govermant could do is to reduce that rate but saying that the Companys will most likey then raise the price again.

 

I think the idea of striking or showing that your not happy with fuel prices is good unfortunaly over here you cant block any fuel depots or garages as by law they can and will conficate your Vehicle so all us truckers do not have a choice but to take the price rises..

 

 

Steve

[asperity]

So good that Steve agrees twice

[asperity]

I take it that the regular increases in duty levied on fuel by this government, and the 2 pence a litre rise thats in the pipeline, are figments of our collective imagination. I stand corrected and reiterate that I couldn't give a toss because I've sold my car and walk practically everywhere.

[tonymaillman]

So good that Steve agrees twice

 

Bless him ..

[disgusted]

I take it that the regular increases in duty levied on fuel by this government, and the 2 pence a litre rise thats in the pipeline, are figments of our collective imagination.

No, one is in the past and HAS NOT CONTRIBUTED to the recent rise in prices, and one is in the future and may or may not be cancelled and HAS NOT CONTRIBUTED to the recent rise in prices.

 

Difficult this isn't it?

[disgusted]

So to summarise, fuel duty is way way too high I think we're all agreed, however there has been no rise in fuel duty in the past 9 months, and the only tax rise is 3p in VAT, all the rest is down to the oil companies.

[Shelley]

Send this link to your MP and everyone else you know. It costs one year's supply of petrol, and would increase electricity need by only 6% even if there was no decrease in car use.

 

 

How about us committing to getting off oil for ground transport within 10 years?

[Paul Kennedy]

So to summarise, fuel duty is way way too high I think we're all agreed, however there has been no rise in fuel duty in the past 9 months, and the only tax rise is 3p in VAT, all the rest is down to the oil companies.

 

Well not quite, the price of a barrel has risen over the year from about $60 to $140. An oil company's profit margin can remain exactly the same, and their profit, because of the more than doubling of oil prices will also more than double. Makes me wonder what all the oil producing countries are doing with their massive increase in income.

[Paul Kennedy]

Send this link to your MP and everyone else you know. It costs one year's supply of petrol, and would increase electricity need by only 6% even if there was no decrease in car use.

 

 

How about us committing to getting off oil for ground transport within 10 years?

 

And how are we going to generate the extra 6% electricity.

[Shelley]

And how are we going to generate the extra 6% electricity.

You haven't watched the video. 6% in 10 years isn't a lot, and that's assuming no cut down in car use, when I think we can and should cut down as well. In Israel, they will use gradually go to solar. In Denmark, where they are adopting it as well, it will mostly be supplied by excess from their wind power. There are many ways. For start if we doubled the efficiency of our power plants by CHP it would be a drop in the bucket. I've also heard claims that electric vehicles could be nearly fueled simply by the electricity that would otherwise be needed to get the oil out of the ground. George Bush plans to use it for that instead.

 

Between you and me, anything, even nuclear is better than oil. George Bush seems to not know about such ideas as this, so he is promoting offshore drilling. I sent him the link, and one to David Sandalow's Freedom from Oil. I know all about offshore drilling. I visited a friend in the dorms at UC Santa Barbara when turpentine next to the shower room became standard.

 

As to less car use, if nothing else, motorway driving is silly. All it takes to get rid of it is good parking at the train station and convenient inexpensive car rental at the destination station.

[Bazj]

And how are we going to generate the extra 6% electricity.

You haven't watched the video. 6% in 10 years isn't a lot, and that's assuming no cut down in car use, when I think we can and should cut down as well. In Israel, they will use gradually go to solar. In Denmark, where they are adopting it as well, it will mostly be supplied by excess from their wind power. There are many ways. For start if we doubled the efficiency of our power plants by CHP it would be a drop in the bucket. I've also heard claims that electric vehicles could be nearly fueled simply by the electricity that would otherwise be needed to get the oil out of the ground. George Bush plans to use it for that instead.

 

Between you and me, anything, even nuclear is better than oil. George Bush seems to not know about such ideas as this, so he is promoting offshore drilling. I sent him the link, and one to David Sandalow's Freedom from Oil. I know all about offshore drilling. I visited a friend in the dorms at UC Santa Barbara when turpentine next to the shower room became standard.

 

As to less car use, if nothing else, motorway driving is silly. All it takes to get rid of it is good parking at the train station and convenient inexpensive car rental at the destination station.

 

And you really believe all this Shelley?

[Shelley]

And you really believe all this Shelley?

I'm not sure what you are accusing me of believing, but even you only believe your own senses, are you honestly going to tell me you like the smell of car fumes?

[Bazj]

are you honestly going to tell me you like the smell of car fumes?

 

Well yes.... I have lots of cars. I love working on cars. I am restoring a 1960's car at this very moment. It is a bloke thing Shelley. I go to car shows and love the smell of petrol fumes coming out of some big gas guzzling 5 litre 1950's Cadillac

 

Cars are really for blokes, and blokes should drive big cars. Not snitchy little cars like Fiestas and Puntos. Those cars should be all pink and should be for girls to go shopping in....

[Shelley]

are you honestly going to tell me you like the smell of car fumes?

 

Well yes.... I have lots of cars. I love working on cars. I am restoring a 1960's car at this very moment. It is a bloke thing Shelley. I go to car shows and love the smell of petrol fumes coming out of some big gas guzzling 5 litre 1950's Cadillac

 

Cars are really for blokes, and blokes should drive big cars. Not snitchy little cars like Fiestas and Puntos. Those cars should be all pink and should be for girls to go shopping in....

Okay, a car hobbyist. No major problem. the environment will probably be able to handle the pollution from a few car hobbyists who can parade their cars out on a track some place away from town and all enjoy sniffing the fumes together. If only hobbyist owned cars there probably wouldn't even be a fuel crunch.

[Bazj]

are you honestly going to tell me you like the smell of car fumes?

 

Well yes.... I have lots of cars. I love working on cars. I am restoring a 1960's car at this very moment. It is a bloke thing Shelley. I go to car shows and love the smell of petrol fumes coming out of some big gas guzzling 5 litre 1950's Cadillac

 

Cars are really for blokes, and blokes should drive big cars. Not snitchy little cars like Fiestas and Puntos. Those cars should be all pink and should be for girls to go shopping in....

Okay, a car hobbyist. No major problem. the environment will probably be able to handle the pollution from a few car hobbyists who can parade their cars out on a track some place away from town and all enjoy sniffing the fumes together. If only hobbyist owned cars there probably wouldn't even be a fuel crunch.

 

Oh you do crack me up!!

 

We can all have bicycles and leave all the oil for the likes of the up coming economies in India and China.... after all, they are doing sweet FA to help and why is it always the good old British person who has to take the hit for the rest of the world?

[Dizzy]

Send this link to your MP and everyone else you know. It costs one year's supply of petrol, and would increase electricity need by only 6% even if there was no decrease in car use.

 

 

How about us committing to getting off oil for ground transport within 10 years?

 

I must admit I found it all very interesting at first (think it was helped by the chaps lovely accent and good looks )

 

I did start to wonder though when he talked about the % of tax on these new cars. 72% on cars that use oil/petrol and only 10% if it's elec. Sounded good until he then said the 10% would then rise to 70% once people started to get on board. Maybe I just misunderstood though.

 

Another issue was the fact that the cars would have less mechanical parts as they would be mainly electric. I'm sure any mechanic will tell you that cars are not actually that hard to fix until some form of electrical problem occurs.

 

As for going to a car wash and having a new automatically battery inserted...... it was starting to sound a bit far fetched and repetitive by then and I switched off... sorry

 

Had they showed some video clips of electric powered sporty looking cars/family cars/4x4's then it may have retained my interest for longer and seemed more reaslitic.

 

Nice bloke though and he could eaily have sold me double glazing or a conservatory

[Dizzy]

 

If only life were that simple Shelly

 

Unfortunately............

 

1. Public transport is costly and unreliable. (I sometimes work at the other side of Warrington. In my own car it takes me less that 10 minutes if there is no traffic but when I have had to use public transport it has taken me 45 minutes, two busses and cost over ?3 one way)

 

2. Car park charges are ridiculous

 

3. If you don't work set hours it would be a nightmare to rely on public transport.

 

4. Some people have to travel as part of their work and sometimes at short notice so they need the convenience of their own cars.

 

5. If for example I had to go to Wales are you suggesting I get a train there then hire a car when I arrive?

 

6. How could I be sure that there was a car available for hire when I got there and what if I didn't know how long I'd be there for ?

 

7. If I had to take or bring back a lot of items items how would I carry them onto the train.

 

8. I wont mention family holidays and the need for my car.

 

PS ..... what do you do in an electric car if you get stuck in a very slow moving traffic jam

[Shelley]

[quote name="ShelleyAs to less car use' date=' if nothing else, motorway driving is silly. All it takes to get rid of it is good parking at the train station and convenient inexpensive car rental at the destination station.

 

If only life were that simple Shelly ]At present I totally agree, but we all know it should be improved. But you are also talking about short distance public transport, which is much harder to get right than long distance transport. Long distance public transport needs a lot of improving too, but it's easier to get right, because the need for flexibility isn't as high.

 

2. Car park charges are ridiculous.

My thoughts precisely, but it's another very solvable problem. As long as you take the train, train station parking should be free, and be the easiest place to park around. Instead it is usually the worst place to park around. I remember once trying to take the train to London when I lived in Milton, near Cambridge, driving into the station, not finding anywhere to park, and finally giving up and driving all the way to Redbridge where there was more parking and taking the tube.

 

3. If you don't work set hours it would be a nightmare to rely on public transport.

 

4. Some people have to travel as part of their work and sometimes at short notice so they need the convenience of their own cars.

Yes, both good reasons to need a car. I didn't say to cut them out completely.

 

5. If for example I had to go to Wales are you suggesting I get a train there then hire a car when I arrive?

 

6. How could I be sure that there was a car available for hire when I got there and what if I didn't know how long I'd be there for ?

All solvable problems. I'm not talking about normal car hire. I'm thinking more along the lines of car club style car hire where it was automated. You book online or even through your mobile phone, and you have an electronic card the you wave at it to let you in and you slot it into something to count your miles. This not science fiction. It has been done on a limited level, and they have a plan to do something like it in Paris. There it seems you can pick them up and drop them off anywhere. It might not work quite as perfectly as driving your own car the whole way there, but there would be a number of advantageous to compensate for that. For example, by more of an emphasis on car renting, people would be able to get cars suited just for the purpose they needed. When you only needed a little one, you would get a little one, but on another occasion when you wanted one to transport something large you might get a van.

 

7. If I had to take or bring back a lot of items items how would I carry them onto the train.

 

8. I wont mention family holidays and the need for my car.

Again some challenges here, but by no means impossible. I believe in making it easy to be green, not in making people suffer for it, and I think they are ways. As to the family trips, my impression from my own childhood memories is that kids like trains much better than cars, much more space to move around.

 

PS ..... what do you do in an electric car if you get stuck in a very slow moving traffic jam

No problem. Electric cars are far better than petrol cars in slow traffic. No idling. The most disconcerting thing when you first get used to one. You think it's broken when you stop, because they totally turn off.

[P J]

Because of their very quiet engines will electric cars not pose a major hazard as people will not be able to hear them coming and step out into the road?

[Shelley]

Because of their very quiet engines will electric cars not pose a major hazard as people will not be able to hear them coming and step out into the road?

A legitimate concern, but one I think we would adjust to. I haven't had major problems with it. We are aware of it. Sometimes we yell, "vroom, vroom" or turn the radio on when we think someone won't be aware we are coming. I would imagine that as more of them are around pedestrians will adapt their habits as well to them, not depending on their ears so much. They are not dead silent either. Once your ears get attuned to it that hair dryer sound should supply the same kind of warning.

 

And the lack of noise is definitely a good problem to have. If it really was a problem, there are far more pleasant sounds that could be substituted for engine noise. Perhaps they could play symphonies.

 

Also, I'm not sure this is universal, but my experience is that perhaps because of the quietness and maybe also because nothing is coming out of the tailpipe, I tend to connect with pedestrians a bit more like one of them in the electric car. Perhaps in the long run electric cars and pedestrians will evolve a different relationship than petrol cars and pedestrians have. You make eye contact more, perhaps even stop and chat, and thereby anticipate each other's moves better.

 

The cat even seems to do this a bit. He tends to want to get under "foot" like cats do with people. But in this case it's a bit worrisome, because we need to watch out, because getting foot with the electric car is considerably more dangerous than getting under foot of a person.

[disgusted]

As to less car use, if nothing else, motorway driving is silly. All it takes to get rid of it is good parking at the train station and convenient inexpensive car rental at the destination station.

LMAO. You can't be serious?

[disgusted]

[quote name="ShelleyAs to less car use' date=' if nothing else, motorway driving is silly. All it takes to get rid of it is good parking at the train station and convenient inexpensive car rental at the destination station.

 

If only life were that simple Shelly ]At present I totally agree, but we all know it should be improved. But you are also talking about short distance public transport, which is much harder to get right than long distance transport. Long distance public transport needs a lot of improving too, but it's easier to get right, because the need for flexibility isn't as high.

 

What? Do you mean that as a percentage of your overall distance travelled you get closer to your destination, because that's the only way I can comprehend such a ludicrous statement? You do realise that it's the same train stations that are used for short or long distance travel?

 

Just because you travel from Portsmouth to Aberdeen, doesn't mean you are any nearer your destination than if you travelled from Dundee to Aberdeen. You're still stuck in Aberdeen station rather than your final destination, you'll still have exactly the same problems once your feet hit the platform.

[Shelley]

Just because you travel from Portsmouth to Aberdeen, doesn't mean you are any nearer your destination than if you travelled from Dundee to Aberdeen. You're still stuck in Aberdeen station rather than your final destination, you'll still have exactly the same problems once your feet hit the platform.

You didn't read the earlier post that he was responding to.

All it takes to get rid of it is good parking at the train station and convenient inexpensive car rental at the destination station.

Typically for a long distance trip, for the beginning and end of the trip, it's more flexible to have your own car, but for the middle bit where you're just sitting with a bunch of other cars on a motorway all going the same way, you don't have any flexibility anyway, so you might as well be in some form of public transportation. The tricky bit is finding a way to make that transition from one transport mode to the other as seamless as possible. Of course there are futuristic fancy ideas like trains that disconnect, but I'm trying to think simple do it tomorrow sort of technology. And for that, as you suggest, the beginning and end of the trip are the problematic parts, because of the inconvenience of changing modes of transport, and such things as adjusting your schedule to that of the train. But as the distance gets longer such delays become relatively less important, particularly if they are more than compensated for by a faster speed in the middle bit, because you're not stuck in traffic.

 

Yes, I agree, the beginning and end bits are the challenge. But it's no good saying they are impossible when not even the smallest bit of effort is being made on them. Perhaps a private effort could be made. I've been told about house swapping clubs, where you go on holiday by staying in somebody house while they stay in yours. I know someone who did it with his family when he was a child. He said you correspond with them a good while first, so you come to trust them. I'm still not sure about it, but he said they never had any problems. So how about a car swapping club? You know, you get to your destination, and there are all these cars parked there taking up space and paying parking fees just when you need a car. Seems such a waste, there must be a way to devise a system to take advantage of it.

 

And by the way, I'm well qualified to talk about long distance car travel. I've driven the 3000 miles across the US once, alone. 400 miles a day, staying in Motel 6's and eating at Dennys. Get up, have breakfast at Dennys, drive 4 hours, stop for lunch in a town you will never remember, drive another 4 hours, go for a swim in the pool, have dinner at Dennys, go to bed, repeat. Out on the I80 sometimes had the same car in front of me for a hundred miles, and once practically made friends with the kids in one of them, playing shooting games.

 

About a year later, I took 2/3 of the same trip (Chicago to San Francisco) in a train. That's a trip I will be telling stories about forever.

[Peter T]

If every large town had a Metro, no doubt people would take to public transport, or maybe not? Manchester has the tram system and still people drive there.

Lack of incentive somewhere.