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War Crimes ?


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It seems that any attack on a residential (civilian) area is considered a "war crime";   but if every building contains snipers firing on advancing troops, the demolition of such buildings would seem logical.   This propensity of the liberal left in the West, to dive straight into the "war crime" play book is imo frankly absurd; aside from driving the assailant into a going for broke attitude, it tries to impose rules that attempts to sanitise war, when in fact, it's war itself that is the crime, and the more violent and destructive it is should deter folk from engaging in it.   Under these new "woke" legalese parameters,  the Luftwaffe and RAF should have been prosecuted for "war crimes",   and NATO later for "shock and awe"  in Serbia, Libya, Iraq, Syria and Afghanistan,  cos I'm sure no one believed that nonsense about "smart bombs" and precision targeting.   💀

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The great thing about any weapons used from a distance is the retaliation is limited . Back in days of yore when two blokes squared up or two knights met in the lists there was a realisation that you could get hurt yourself ,a type of medieval mutually assured destruction ,if you like. Nowadays we just have "the bomb" for that.

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See Gordon Brown is pushing for Putin to stand trial for "war crimes"; which will no doubt guarantee that Putin will take things all the way.  Notice Gordy's mate. Sir Tony has gone quiet, perhaps he wants to avoid a "war crimes" trial or even a Dr Kelly trial.    Well, perhaps they'll find enough survivours of WW3 to stage a trial ?      💀

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17 hours ago, Observer II said:

See Gordon Brown is pushing for Putin to stand trial for "war crimes"; which will no doubt guarantee that Putin will take things all the way.  Notice Gordy's mate. Sir Tony has gone quiet, perhaps he wants to avoid a "war crimes" trial or even a Dr Kelly trial.    Well, perhaps they'll find enough survivours of WW3 to stage a trial ?      💀

 

 

There won't be much choice for Jury service.........

See the source image

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Perhaps the best we can hope for is for internal dissent to take out Putin, but that would still leave others of the gang to take over.   The more refugees that spill into the West from Ukraine, the less opposition he will get from Ukrainians, those that aren't killed in the fighting will no doubt be sent to the Gulags for re-education.  The refugees will form large ex-pat communities in the West,  ready to turn out to every anti-Russian protest in London and keep things on the boil.   A new iron curtain and a cold war should follow, with the ever present threat of WW3.   As for Boris, he's now using the crisis to forget completing Brexit, and has put Article 16 on the back burner;  while the Ukrainian refugees will no doubt complicate and end any attempts to stop the boats crossing the channel or save the £5million a day the illegals are costing us.   :rolleyes:

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Just got to laugh -  according to Jeff Taylor (youtube);  the Oligarks in the UK are using HR law to stop HMG seizing their assets,  and when you think about it, the legal principle is "not guilty" until proven so in a court of law.   But those advocates of HR, like Starmer and the left, are pushing for a relaxation of relaxation of standards of proof, similarly the EU.   Well, if we can tolerate a relaxation of legal standards in the case of Russian Oligarks, then surely we can apply this across the board to illegal migrants and get them all deported asap ?   😠

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4 hours ago, Observer II said:

-Well, if we can tolerate a relaxation of legal standards in the case of Russian Oligarks, then surely we can apply this across the board to illegal migrants and get them all deported asap ?   😠

Not really comparable is it? Making an oligarch wait to get his hands on his ill-gotten gains for a whiles whilst investigations are made is one thing. Not checking if someone is really the subject of persecution and possibly sending them to their death is another thing altogether.

You may be interested in this article, then you might not How Vladimir Putin weaponises refugees - UnHerd

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All this hand wringing that is going on because NATO is sensibly refusing to get involved in military action so as not to provoke Putin surely could be resolved by the UN setting up a force to defend Ukraine with a no fly zone.

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Any UN action would require security council approval; and Russia and China have a veto.    The villain of the peace imo, is that bear baiting comedian President Zelinsky; who deliberately committed to joining NATO and the EU.   If Ukraine committed itself to total neutrality, this could be signed off by NATO and Russia, and they could all go home.  Think folk need to read up on the history of Ukraine, to see how it's politics originated.   They have always sought independence from Poland then the USSR, and although a majority joined the Red Army to fight the NAZIS,  a large minority co-operated with the Germans, to the point of joining an SS unit.   In 1944, when the Red Army overun the Region, right wing partisans were fighting Red Army liberators, and actually killed Marshal Vatutin in an ambush.   Many served the Germans in France prior to D-Day, and many surrendered to the Allies,  and eventually settled in the UK and US.  I've suggested a reasonable compromise, the only question is, would it be acceptable to both sides;  or will Zalensky continue to bait the bear with applications to join the West and will Putin harbour any ambitions beyond Ukraine ?      Any suggestion of "no fly zones" by NATO would immediately be seen as an act of war by Putin,  and if we believe the gossip about his mental state, that could rapidly escalate to a Nuclear War, and we're all doomed.     💀

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Ukraine applied to start a membership Action plan for NATO in 2008, well before Zelensky. If you had read the article I pointed you to past the picture of the author you would have seen that Putin has been deliberately destabilising the country for a very long time using the same but growing band of mercenaries he used in Syria to cause refugees to flood West. Those refugees are a weapon in Putin's playbook. The answer is to call Putin out every time the tactic is used in order stop the flow of refugees.

I am afraid that lots of things appear to be seen as a declaration of War at the moment. Maybe we should ask Mossad to help. The Red Army were not seen, in many places by those being "liberated", as much of an improvement from the NAZIs. Russia was blamed by Ukraine for famines caused unnecessarily for political reasons before and after WW2. Remember also that Ukraine voted for Independence from the USSR by a 90% to 10% majority in an election with 84% turnout just a week or so before the break up of the USSR was agreed by the Russian Federation led by Gorbachev, Ukraine and Belarus. This is not a short-term thing.

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Of course Putin wants to maximise the number of refugees, as he knows it will cause political stress in W/Europe, though their Govs will open the doors, and provide the accomodation etc.   The bonus being, that the refugees will be dissidents and thus not a headache for him.  And just what does "calling out" Putin mean, he'll just laugh it off, like the sanctions.  Think on balance, that the Ukrainians preferred the Commies to the NAZIs, especially those that were Jewish.   There are an estimated 60,000 illegal migrants due over this year, no doubt prepped by mobile phone by their advanced guard, to contact the HR lawyers asap.  90% will be young males, again prepped to expect the UK to be a soft touch,  they will ditch their ID's and claim their parents were beating them etc, in pursuit of an asylum claim. It's a complete joke, and no doubt Putin realises it.      😠

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That's precisely what I suggested Dave and what Putin is demanding - 1) An agreed change to the Ukraine Constitution to write in total neutrality, ruling out joining any block.   2) Acceptance that Crimea stays Russian.  3) Recognition of Donbass and Lugansk as independent states.  4)  Cease fire.  Then we can all get back to normal; and finish arguing over Partygate.        :rolleyes:

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1 hour ago, Observer II said:

That's precisely what I suggested Dave and what Putin is demanding - 1) An agreed change to the Ukraine Constitution to write in total neutrality, ruling out joining any block.   2) Acceptance that Crimea stays Russian.  3) Recognition of Donbass and Lugansk as independent states.  4)  Cease fire.  Then we can all get back to normal; and finish arguing over Partygate.        :rolleyes:

Those demands are contrary to Articles 1 and 2 of the UN Charter signed by Russia and Ukraine. The UN Charter would have outlawed what happened at Yalta and what Putin wants to return to. It is also a fact that the Geneva Convention now forbids the worst things that happened in WW2 and that is deliberate. 

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29 minutes ago, Observer II said:

Might is right - as we've learnt from history.   I think the West can dispense with the moral high ground, after Serbia, Libya, Iraq, Syria and Afghanistan - hypocracy of the highest order.     :rolleyes:

Please stop sounding like Putin's spokesman.

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With energy cost set to spiral to over £1200pa, with a general knock on effect to cost of living, we now have the added costs brought about by sanctions on Russia.  Some bright spark, no doubt spurred on by the emotional tsunami over Ukraine, has suggested we can all do our bit to sanction Russia by driving at less than 55mph and turning down our C/heating thermostats and wearing extra layers of clothing !     No doubt the Russians will be feeling the pinch too, as all the MacDonalds burger joints have closed and they will have to rely on beetroot soup.   The question now is, who can last this out longer ?   In Russia it seems their younger folk don't have the stoicism of their grand-fathers,  however, weak hearts could find themselves on a trip to a gulag, thus providing an incentive to endure.  Likewise our younger folk don't imo match the stiff upper lip of their g/fathers either, and the poorest among us will bare the heaviest load.  Our politicians (who've just had a pay rise btw), spurred on by a lefty middle class opposition to not only increase the cost of living due to sanctions, but to open our doors to another tranch of immigrants, increasing health and housing demands;  joining the previous wave of illegal immigrants, to be settled in working class areas, and no doubt eventually provide the pressure of competition to reduce the pay and job prospects of our lower paid citizens.  As under free movement in the EU,  this increase in labour will no doubt provide the nannies and cleaners for the liberal middle classes, which is why they remain Remoaners.  Perhaps in order to dispel the current wave of emotion, the film "Threads" could be shown on TV,  just to give us a sense of perspective.   :rolleyes:

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Interestingly no mention of the real villain in all this or of any support for the plight of the Ukrainian people which from my perspective makes your take on the situation look completely out of line with the views of most reasonable folk. I find it difficult to understand how you can’t differentiate between women and children seeking temporary refuge with their families and illegal economic migrants. These people didn’t ask or want to come here and you claim it's people here need more perspective.  :)

Putin won’t last forever and while he might be laughing at the sanctions right now, in time the people of Russia will start to see and feel the effects of his actions and realize just what the man has really done. There’ll be no winners in all this, and the economic fallout will be felt here and around the world. Now stop trying to blame the UK government for the problem, they're all whacky but they didn't start all this.

 

Bill 😊

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Well, at least in the case of the Ukrainians, they are genuine "refugees", so I'm sure we could take them; the problem is we've had over 2 years of illegal migrants crossing the channel and only a handful deported -  this is clearly unsustainable in the long run imo.    I'm not blaming our Government alone, but the whole of the West and it's hypocracy.  Your certainly right that they be no winners - especially if emotion rules our decision making and things go nuclear.    💀

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I think we would have more capacity for the Ukrainians if Europe hadn't foisted so many of its Arab migrants onto the UK. Interestingly ,nothing like the help given to the Ukrainians was offered by EU countries to the Syrian refugees in terms of organised help or outrage at their attackers.

As for Putin ,is he really that interested in public opinion when all his needs will continue to be catered for ,as will those of his favoured circle of retainers.

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