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Observer II
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Well, the Russians have finally made a move on Ukraine,  and the West is in a frenzy of hypocritical disgust. I say hypocritical, as the West (NATO) has spent the past 20 years or so, invading or bombing everything from Serbia to Libya, to Iraq, Syria, and Afghanistan; leaving total chaos behind them, plus record numbers of migrants heading for Europe.   As we learnt from the Cuba crisis, that almost brought WW3,  we can place our missiles and troops on Russia's doorstep, but if they have the audacity to do the same, it's WW3.   Still, no doubt there will be sighs of relief in No10, as Partygate becomes past tense and some of our Royals will no doubt be thankful they are yesterday's news.   So what are we going to do about it ?   Well, Boris has lined up a barrage of economic sanctions, which no doubt Putin is prepared for, sanctions that will mean economic hardship for the West too;  and if the full gambit of sanctions are unleashed, Putin will have no hesitation in going for broke and invading the whole of Ukraine.  As for the crime, of violating the territorial integrity of a sovereign Nation, surely that's exactly what the EU is doing with N/Ireland and France is doing with it's migrants ?    😠

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Well if it does come to the **"American solution"** one good thing is that it might just kill off covid as well as the rest of the planet, it would certainly put an end to the climate change debate.

 

** "nuke it and if it moves nuke it again until it glows in the dark. Then nuke the glow just to make sure"**

note to self :- must stop watching all these C movies on the horror channel.

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56 minutes ago, ninearches said:

We could do with a buffer zone of neutral countries between Russia & NATO pact countries.

That is what Russia wants. There are few volunteers amongst countries that were dominated by Russia after WW2. That is the crux of the problem, they have tried it once(not by their own choice) and they didn't like it. They want to join NATO to stop Russia ever doing it to them again. The Russians do not understand that these countries do not so much want to challenge Russia as not be ruled by it.

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I think the Russians fully understand it, and they view it as being anti-Russian and therefore a threat to their security.  It may suit these "neutral States" to seek the protection of NATO, but all that does is increase the possibility of nuclear conflict, which I would think, doesn't suit us.  So in a World of National self-interest, our interests (in not moving to WW3) need to be paramount.  International real-politik.    :unsure:

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While the headless chickens in Parliament, try to outdo each other with suggestions for evermore severe sanctions on Russia;  I was pleased to see a more balanced and objective view expressed by "history debunked" on Youtube, he made the same observations as I did in my first post.  If we want peace, NATO needs to disband, as it should have done when the Warsaw Pact disbanded.    :rolleyes:

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I think, for all its members, that NATO would be found wanting in asking its members to take up arms . Many of its member countries were overwhelmed easily in the last major conflict  & would probably roll over & play doggo while the Russians walked across borders. All the bluster of the EU would amount to the same outcome ,with maybe two or three countries getting involved. Perhaps, Vlad is just testing the water & the resolve of the west with his Ukraine escapade.

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On 2/22/2022 at 6:18 PM, Observer II said:

I think the Russians fully understand it, and they view it as being anti-Russian and therefore a threat to their security.  It may suit these "neutral States" to seek the protection of NATO, but all that does is increase the possibility of nuclear conflict, which I would think, doesn't suit us.  So in a World of National self-interest, our interests (in not moving to WW3) need to be paramount.  International real-politik.    :unsure:

Unfortunately it is looking as if you might be wrong. Boris just said .. UK stood ready for any request from NATO to go further with military support, adding there could be no normalisation of relations with Russia after this act. In addition James Cleverly is telling BP to sell its 10% stake in Rosneft, the UK government describing it as "a deeply unsatisfactory" arrangement. This is getting very nasty awfully quickly.

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Well, that sounds exactly like the road to WW3, led by donkeys like Boris;  any ratcheting up, will be met with a counter move etc, until we get a flash of white light  in our living rooms, followed by a blast wave, then good night Vienna - no need to book a funeral.     💀

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Well, it's looking like Vladimer, like Michael Corleone, is settling all family business, as he's now put Finland on notice not to join NATO - or else.   Meanwhile, an estimated 5million Ukrainians will be heading West for asylum, and we can guess the prefered destination, as most will speak English.  :rolleyes:

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Looks like Vlad has underestimated the Ukrainians, and instead of overwhelming Ukraine in days, it could now be months or even years.   imo this is even more dangerous for the World, as Putin's failure will create challenges to his political existence; and especially if he's become mentally unstable, the bunker syndrome will kick in and the doomsday scenario of nuclear war becomes ever more likely.  💀   

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Listening to the emotional handwringing over Ukraine, it's easy to see how Nations and people can be dragged into wars.   We've got clueless individuals calling for increases in response to Russian aggression, such as creating a no fly zone over Ukraine, result being, the first armed contact between NATO and Russian air assets, would be WW3.  Ukraine is not a member of NATO (YET), and thus outside it's terms of protection, and the Ukrainian persistance in applying to join NATO and the EU, merely serves to justify Putin's fears and thus aggression.   Unless the diplomatic brakes can be applied in the form of an agreement, this scenario will become more  apocalyptic.   It would seem reasonable imo, for Ukraine to forgo any application for NATO or EU membership, in return for a recognition of it's neutrality by all sides, such an arrangement has existed in the case of Finland and Sweden for decades, although that's now in question.   If the headless chickens continue to have their way, we are all at risk.    💀

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Just been watching some heart-warming stories of how families in the neighbouring countries are offering their homes as shelter to total strangers fleeing from the fighting. Contrast that with the UK’s Priti Patel’s dogmatic attitude in refusing to accept women and children, especially when they already have relatives here in the UK offering to take them in.

She’s been totally ineffective at stopping illegal economic migrants but when it comes to genuine war refugees from a European neighbour, she digs her heels in insisting they jump through all the hoops and red tape of the visa system, denying entry to most. The sooner she’s replaced the better it’ll be for everyone.

In this instance I'm almost embarrassed to be British.  :(

 

Bill 😊

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I'm embarrassed that we've been flooded with migrants at all, so I'm not going to get melted heart syndrome over 5million Ukrainians, that we'll have to feed and house for years, at a time when the Plebs will be lucky to survive the cost of living.  Among the throng, there's no doubt Putin's FSB agents will be in the mix, preparing for another Salisbury.   😠

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This "war" just doesn't add up -there seem to be questions arising about the Russian invasion that need some answers.  1) Why didn't the Russians knock out Ukraine's power and telecoms network, prior to troop commitment; which has allowed The Uk President loads of air time ?    2) Why haven't the Russian military pursued Speed, Aggression and Surprise; destroying or capturing key infrastructure targets within the first 24hrs ?   3) How do the Russians hope to occupy the Ukraine for a sustained period, when they haven't the 20 - 1  ratio of troops to population, and their line troops appear poorly trained and motivated.   4) Saddled with an urban warfare scenario,  they can expect high casualties and will need to inflict systematic destruction, just like Berlin in 1945; leading to more hand wringing from the West and calls for war crimes charges thus locking Putin into his gamble.  5) On sanctions; why are we still buying oil and gas from Russia  ?   6) Why the delay in hitting the Oligarcs with freezes on their assets, allowing them time to move their money away ?   7)  With Western banks having made loans to Russia, with a worthless Rouble and a refusal to honour the debt; where does that leave the West's financial economy ?  8) What was Biden Jnr doing in Ukraine prior to the coup that kicked out Lukashenko ?       :unsure:

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When you think about it, there’s been some really crazy people in positions of power over the years, especially those who hold their position for long periods of time. It’s like the longer they go the more they develop a God like way of thinking that however extreme, nobody dares question. Putin’s actions are looking ever more like those of of another crazy, Mr Hitler.

While on the subject of crazies, on holiday I saw a clip of Mr Trump praising Putin’s actions as decisive and the sort of thing he would have personally liked to do on the Mexican border. I don’t know if that was shown on UK TV, but it didn’t go down well in the states.

 

 

Bill 😊

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"WASHINGTON, March 2 (Reuters) - The United Nations General Assembly adopted on Wednesday a resolution rebuking the Russian invasion of Ukraine and calling Moscow to immediately withdraw all forces from Ukraine, a move that aimed to politically isolate Russia.

The resolution, which won support from 141 of the 193-member body, came at the end of a rare emergency session of General Assembly called by the Security Council and as Russian forces pounded Ukraine's cities with air strikes and bombardments, forcing hundreds of thousands of people to flee."

Above from Reuters:

There were 35 abstentions and five votes against the resolution, from Russia, Belarus, North Korea, Syria and Eritrea.

“A man is known by the company he keeps” Aesop

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There are no vetoes in the General Assembly. The procedure to get a vote in the GA following the failure to agree in the Security Council was used for the first time since 1997. This is the same procedure that was used to approve the Korean War so it isn't a toothless tiger but it needs a two thirds majority on a vote.

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For those of us who grew up under the threat of Nuclear Armageddon,  we just had to live with it and get on with life; knowing if it did kick off no one would survive.  There were some good films at the time, just to reinforce the doom, like Dr Strangelove and On the Beach (?).   Now it seems there's a run on iodine, in the belief it has anti-radiation properties, but the radiation, though deadly for days/weeks, is just one of many terminal threats, like - a nuclear winter lasting years, which would kill all plant life and thus end the food chain. If there were any isolated groups of survivours who had a well stocked bunker to spend years in, they would exist at the level of the stone age, and as Einstein said "WW4 will be fought with bows and arrows".   💀

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