No Jab Lockdown

[Bill]

Interesting to see Austria and possibly some other countries starting to enforce lockdowns but only for those who haven’t been double vaccinated. Seems to me to be a good idea if they are the most likely to become infected and pass it onto others. It might make the anti vaxers think twice about whether their whacky theories are worth more than their freedom to live normally.

The big question is could we see this happening here in the UK?

 

Bill 😊

[Observer II]

Think the vaccine is being credited with more than is due:  whilst it can save serious illness and death, thus saving the NHS from being overloaded. it doesn't stop you catching the virus or spreading it;  and we're now being told it wears off after 6 months.  If, as seems possible (if we look at Europe), a lock down is required, it should apply as before imo. or certainly applied to crowded indoor venues.   😷  

[Bill]

That’s a bit of an odd view. A bit like saying that seat belts are overrated because they don’t stop you from being killed. Read just about any reputable medical reports and they all suggest that the vaccines significantly reduce the chances of becoming infected and therefore less likely to pass it on.

Quote

The latest REACT-1 study findings from Imperial College London and Ipsos MORI show COVID-19 infection rates are three times lower for double vaccinated people. Analysis suggests double vaccinated people are also less likely to pass on the virus to others.

Your views seem to be completely at odds with the facts Obs.

 

Bill 😊

[Observer II]

The virus can exist on surfaces etc; hence the advice to wash hands often;  not to shake hands etc. The vax will not stop the virus passing to you from an infected person, due to direct contact.  What it does do, is prep your immune system to resist the worst effects of the virus, thus preventing hospitalisation and death. 😷

[Bill]

I think you’re completely missing the point of the question Obs. Sure you can pick it up from surfaces but it’s not like dirt, it gets onto a surface only from infected people so anything that reduces the chance of this happening must be a good thing.

Only the most brutal of lockdowns can stop this virus and clearly that’s never going to happen so we’re stuck with it and with no permanent solution in sight, the best we can do is look to anything that lessens its impact.

Understandably though, many in our age group are focused mainly on self-preservation and don’t care that much what others do just as long as it doesn’t affect us. Sadly, the lack of care for others across all age groups is in my opinion one of major reasons this virus has been so damaging and those who choose not to be vaccinated are the worst offenders.

 

Bill 😊

[Latchford Locks]

I feel little is ever said about what is safe to handle and what isn't.

Are letters through our letterboxes possibly contaminated?

What about supermarket items ?

It would be helpful for some information to be available even google is a bit short on information about this.

[Confused52]

1 hour ago, Latchford Locks said:

I feel little is ever said about what is safe to handle and what isn't.

Are letters through our letterboxes possibly contaminated?

What about supermarket items ?

It would be helpful for some information to be available even google is a bit short on information about this.

There is data around but it is not clear and certainly not up to date. There is a study in the Lancet microbe which uses the same amount of virus on each surface and says that it uses a dose that will cause infection 50% of the time as the starting point. Please read the text before looking at the supplementary data which answers your question to an extent. Temperature is key but common sense is needed too. It is complex so we don't see simplistic rules.

[Bill]

Not much is being said Latchy because that’s not where most infections occur. It’s certain now that this is primarily an airborne virus so you can wash your hands until the skin drops off, but you only need a few lungful’s of the breath from an infected person and you’re at risk.

If you’re concerned about touching a letter, then ask why all the posties aren’t dead by now because I don’t see any of them wearing gloves. The same at the supermarket, the checkout girls handle thousands of items each day without gloves and they’re still here.

 

Bill 😊

[Observer II]

Which suggests that mask wearing, certainly indoors; should be compulsory.  Not for one's own protection, but to protect others.    😷

[Latchford Locks]

47 minutes ago, Bill said:

Not much is being said Latchy because that’s not where most infections occur. It’s certain now that this is primarily an airborne virus so you can wash your hands until the skin drops off, but you only need a few lungful’s of the breath from an infected person and you’re at risk.

If you’re concerned about touching a letter, then ask why all the posties aren’t dead by now because I don’t see any of them wearing gloves. The same at the supermarket, the checkout girls handle thousands of items each day without gloves and they’re still here.

 

Bill 😊

Two good points there Bill I suppose early in the pandemic much less was understood than now hence the emphasis on washing a lot.

But as you say posties and check out staff seem healthy enough ; so wearing a mask being jabbed and  a little common sense should see us through this 👌

[Latchford Locks]

 

[Latchford Locks]

20 minutes ago, Latchford Locks said:

And things (hopefully) are going in the right direction

 

[Ian]

My son who attends a special needs college was sent home this Monday lunchtime following an Email from the college to parents/carer`s of the same day advising the start of a `10 day Circuit Break`, required due to the increased number of Covid 19 cases and D & V infections. Little warning for parents to make adjustments to their working patterns.

[Bill]

It’s looking like there’s no end to this so maybe this is the new normal that we have to learn to live with, and I can only assume it’s not going to get any better during the colder months. Wonder if anyone know what caused the two peaks in recent months?

It’s a bit like the climate change thing though, where some make an effort while others carry on as normal and we end up with a completely different kind of net zero. If the government leave it up to the public to police themselves then we’re never going to come out of this never-ending cycle.

 

Bill 😊

[Observer II]

Yer right there Bill,  because Gov likes to be liked and is scared of upsetting folk with draconian action - we could have a lock down and call it the Xmas Holidays.😷

[Bill]

I think from a political point of view, you’re dammed if you take action and dammed if you don’t so I suppose doing nowt while it’s holding steady at least give them a breather from the flack that’s certain to come.

Odd that nobody bothered to comment on the crux/question asked in the original post. Just about everyone I’ve spoken to agrees it would be a good thing but thought the riot squads would need to be on standby. I reckon if Boris were to pop out from behind a burning bush with a set of God given rules, half the population still wouldn’t obey anything.

 

Bill 😊

[Observer II]

A minority, anti-vaxers etc,  have failed to comply with any Gov rules to-date;  and won't comply with any specifically targeted sanctions either. So unless we want them all in prison sharing the virus, it would seem a lost cause.   😷

[Latchford Locks]

On 11/18/2021 at 8:42 PM, Observer II said:

A minority, anti-vaxers etc,  have failed to comply with any Gov rules to-date;  and won't comply with any specifically targeted sanctions either. So unless we want them all in prison sharing the virus, it would seem a lost cause.   😷

At least they would share their virus just between themselves ; They could live or die by their own choice together .

And hopefully the prison staff supervising them could also be of the anti vax persuasion so as not to endanger any innocent folk.

So they would be out of the way hence not contaminating innocent folk and we could carry on our lives a wee bit safer as well 

It's a win win situation for all concerned

 

[Observer II]

Whilst my instinct is to agree with you, you only have to look at the pitiful lack of action against the illegal migrants or the road blockers, to realise this Country is past it's sell by date on authoritarianism.   There are riots in Holland over banning folk from restaurants and night clubs.   😷

[Latchford Locks]

42 minutes ago, Observer II said:

Whilst my instinct is to agree with you, you only have to look at the pitiful lack of action against the illegal migrants or the road blockers, to realise this Country is past it's sell by date on authoritarianism.   There are riots in Holland over banning folk from restaurants and night clubs.   😷

Yes.. It's all these Human Rights  people trying for easy money that's got our Police ultra cautious

 

[Bill]

Maybe they did put something into the vaccine after all and it’s now leading all the vaccinated people into thinking that the unvaccinated are all selfish uncaring idiots. 😊

I don’t know how they’re going to get on in Austria in forcing people to have the jab. I’d go along with the original idea of forcing them to quarantine because most would simply opt take the jab to avoid being locked down but now it seems they’re all headed for a lockdown anyway.

 

Bill 😊

 

[Observer II]

Seems the majority of folk requiring ICU treatment for Covid, have not been vaccinated.  Perhaps if such treatment was refused to non vaccinated idiots, they may change their minds ?      😷

[Latchford Locks]

On 11/16/2021 at 3:53 PM, Bill said:

Interesting to see Austria and possibly some other countries starting to enforce lockdowns but only for those who haven’t been double vaccinated. Seems to me to be a good idea if they are the most likely to become infected and pass it onto others. It might make the anti vaxers think twice about whether their whacky theories are worth more than their freedom to live normally.

 

 

Bill 😊

Covid-19 has largely become a disease of the unvaccinated.

The man in his 20s who had always watched what he ate, worked out in the gym, was too healthy to ever catch Covid badly.

The 48-year-old who never got round to making the appointment.

The person in their 50s whose friend had some side-effects.

The woman who wanted to wait for more evidence before deciding.

The young pregnant lady worried about the effects it may have on her baby.

Patience is a virtue I was always told, but I wonder how much is left in the NHS staff who deal with this issue day in day out and risk their and their families health due to it.?

 

[Bill]

Yep, we know all the facts and numbers but I’m still wondering just how they’re going to carry out a compulsory vaccination. They can’t just grab people and hold them down while they jab them and equally fines for none-compliance would simply be ignored so how are they going to achieve this?

The only way that I can think of is by tightening of the rules that apply to everyone. For example, a law that required a vaccine pass at all venues, moves responsibility away from the state to the business owner who understandably won’t want to break the law. In this way, nobody’s really being forced to get vaccinated, but life would become so restricted that people would have to think twice and consider if it’s all worth it.

 

Bill 😊

[Confused52]

I do not advocate this but 1) Proof of vaccination required to be paid or receive benefits - Health number passed to tax authority and checked against vaccination records - second pay period without vax - no money.

2) Food rations after a month, coupons sent only to households where all are vaccinated or recovered. Massive queues to correct records of course! Oh did I forget the food riots!

Wartime measures in peacetime needs the public to actually accept that we ere at war against Covid  and that will cause the public to demand action against an external target - dangerous stuff.