Covid Vaccine Passports

[Bill]

I don’t think it’s going to be quite as bad here as some other places because we’re releasing the restrictions slowly and we’ve all been well and truly told that if things start to go wacky then it’ll be reversed.

According to the latest numbers for Warrington, about one in every 3000 people are infected, which isn’t good, but better than I thought it’d be. I think I’ll wait for a while after my second jab though before I do any mixing. I’ve forgotten when I had the first one but my follow up must be due shortly.

 

Bill 😊

[asperity]

So according to the government data there are 63 people in the whole of Warrington who've had at least one positive test in the last 7 days. These people may, or may not, be contagious. At the same time statistically there are about 18 people with TB, to pick just one of many contagious diseases, wandering about Warrington. How we all survived before Covid 19 is one of the mysteries that may never be answered. Time to get our lives back.

[Observer II]

Seems a pilot for "open air" cinema is planned for Liverpool,   this will involve a pre-test and a post-test,  with no restrictions on seating.  But wouldn't it be more simpler and safer, to introduce drive in cinemas, where folk can view a film from the safety of their cars ?     😷😷

[asperity]

How divisive is that Obs? What about those of us who don't use cars, ask the bus driver to make a diversion? 😜

[Bill]

That’s the confirmed case number Asp but the actual number is probably higher given that on average we only test about 1% of the population each day and on average each person in the UK has only ever been tested twice.

As for TB I thought that was something that occurs in the poorer parts of the world rather than here in Warrington, but I don’t honestly know. Either way nobodies shouting about TB and we were discussing the Covid situation.

  

Bill 😊

[asperity]

TB was more or less eradicated in the UK due to the innoculations programme carried out, but ever since we opened up to people from the poorer parts of the world it has become as common as 83 per 100000. So because you didn't know that you were rubbing shoulders with TB carriers you aren't concerned, but you're having kittens about being in the same town as people who "may" be contagious with a relatively harmless virus that you've been vaccinated against, and are denying yourself freedom to live normally. Okay, your body your choice.

On average I've been tested for Covid precisely never, for the simple reason that I've never shown any symptoms and am not a hypochondriac. If the average for people getting tested is twice, some people must be getting themselves tested as a matter of habit.

[Bill]

I’m not having covid kittens; I’m just airing on the side of caution especially given my wife has just had major surgery so it’s important that we follow the advice for us both to avoid contact with others for a few weeks. But I’ll mention it to her that doctor Asperity think its all a bit of a waste of time, I’m sure she’ll be delighted to hear that. 😊

I’ve only had one test BTW and that was because I had to go into hospital for some tests. The wife has had loads and while she’s in hospital, she’s getting tested every day. I could mention it to them as well that they’re wasting their time testing for a “relatively harmless virus” just as I’m wasting my time typing stuff here that you probably won’t read.

Anyhow Boris was on telly earlier claiming that decline in numbers was brought about mainly by the lockdown measures and while the vaccines helped the problem now was that the unvaccinated younger generation are most likely the ones to be celebrating and therefore at increased risk of infection and pushing the numbers up again. No doubt you’re going to disagree with that as well.

 

Bill 😊

[Observer II]

Think you are right there Bill; following a Summer binge, the cases will begin to increase again and the bad news is, that new variants are beginning to strike down the under 30s.  First day crowds of youngsters, no masks, no social distancing,  all set to raise the "R" rate.      😷

[Bill]

Only time will tell Obs but as was said, the relaxation can be reversed in five weeks’ time if it looks like it’s going badly wrong. As long as we don’t do what they did in Chile we might be ok.

 

Bill 😊

[asperity]

50 minutes ago, Bill said:

I’m not having covid kittens; I’m just airing on the side of caution especially given my wife has just had major surgery so it’s important that we follow the advice for us both to avoid contact with others for a few weeks. But I’ll mention it to her that doctor Asperity think its all a bit of a waste of time, I’m sure she’ll be delighted to hear that. 😊

I’ve only had one test BTW and that was because I had to go into hospital for some tests. The wife has had loads and while she’s in hospital, she’s getting tested every day. I could mention it to them as well that they’re wasting their time testing for a “relatively harmless virus” just as I’m wasting my time typing stuff here that you probably won’t read.

Anyhow Boris was on telly earlier claiming that decline in numbers was brought about mainly by the lockdown measures and while the vaccines helped the problem now was that the unvaccinated younger generation are most likely the ones to be celebrating and therefore at increased risk of infection and pushing the numbers up again. No doubt you’re going to disagree with that as well.

 

Bill 😊

I said "your body your choice" and I've consistently said that it's up to everyone to look after themselves, i.e. avoid situations where you feel you might be at risk, it's not up to everyone else to avoid you.

I say it's a relatively harmless virus because to the vast majority it is. The death rate in the UK stands at 0.19%, the vast majority of whom were highly vulnerable and in the age range where the majority have been vaccinated now.

Boris isn't going to say that lockdown measures are unneccessary because the vaccine programme has worked because if he did and opened everything up now he would be panned by the media, the opposition, most of his own back-benchers, SAGE, all the people who are enjoying being locked up and don't want it to end and Obs would have apoplexy.

Boris may be a buffoon but he isn't stupid

 

[Bill]

Of course, it’s up to individuals to act responsibly and take measures to keep themselves safe but both you and I know that not everyone does that whether by accident or ignorance. I’ve never to my knowledge ever suggested that it’s up to others to avoid coming too close to me, I think you’re getting me mixed up with Observer with that. I try to keep my distance for my own sake and equally for others. I’ve only ever been told once to stand back a bit but, in my defence, the other guy (a store worker) was being a bit OTT in my opinion as I was asking him a question and couldn’t hear his reply.  

Not really any point in trying to debate with you that the virus is bad but surely you must recognise the fact that your views on the subject puts you at complete odds with most people.

As for Boris’s crew liking lockdown and never wanting it to end, that’s just utter rubbish and you know it. Anyway got to pickup the wife so won't be around for a while so you'll have to argue with yourself.

 

Bill 😊

[asperity]

Bill, can you point me to the part of my post where I said that "Boris's crew liking lockdown and never wanting it to end"? I mentioned "all the people who are enjoying being locked up and never want it to end" by which I mean the majority of people being polled who are apparently happy with the current state of affairs. Funny, no-one ever asks me for my opinion on that. You seem to be making a habit of twisting my words, are you trying to wind me up?

My opinion on the virus is at odds with what most other people believe probably because they believe the propaganda that's constantly being thrown at us and don't bother trying to think for themselves. Wouldn't the world be a boring place if we all held the same opinions.

[Confused52]

7 hours ago, asperity said:

So according to the government data there are 63 people in the whole of Warrington who've had at least one positive test in the last 7 days. These people may, or may not, be contagious. At the same time statistically there are about 18 people with TB, to pick just one of many contagious diseases, wandering about Warrington. How we all survived before Covid 19 is one of the mysteries that may never be answered. Time to get our lives back.

As I have said in the past when people claim statistics I check before responding. The average number of cases per year in Warrington was 6 in the three years ending in 2019, the last year for which data was published. The people who tested for Covid will have been contagious for four days or more whether they were symptomatic or not. So there will have been an average of 36 contagious people of any day.

The major difference in scale is apparent, at least 63 cases in 7 days for Covid and 6/52 for TB, so about 540 more cases of Covid than TB. With a major difference being that TB can be cured in 99.9% of cases with the present set of drugs. Covid is incurable in many cases. The current UK Infection Fatality Rate for the whole population is actually 0.31% according to the Medical Research Council on the 1st April.

 

[asperity]

Very good Con, but the point I was trying to make to Bill was that people are terrified of getting infected by Covid but for all their lives have been completely oblivious to the fact that they have been rubbing shoulders with people who may well have had communicable diseases. I only picked on TB as an example to make the point. Covid is never going away and we are going to have to live with it as best we can. If this means staying away from other people completely well fill your boots!

[Confused52]

4 hours ago, asperity said:

Boris isn't going to say that lockdown measures are unneccessary because the vaccine programme has worked because if he did and opened everything up now he would be panned by the media, the opposition, most of his own back-benchers, SAGE, all the people who are enjoying being locked up and don't want it to end and Obs would have apoplexy.

Boris may be a buffoon but he isn't stupid

 

The lockdown measures are necessary because the case rate is significantly above the rate at which we can do genomic sequence looking for vaccine escape variants. We need to get the capability to respond to these by producing new vaccines in volume to re-vaccinate the vulnerable to reduce the death rate if those variants become significant. The recent surge testing in Lambeth and Wandsworth is needed because we do not yet have this capability yet. We are still on a knife edge and will remain so until at least the end of this year. as far as I can tell. I am not just believing   what you claim is propaganda but I am analysing it as well as checking it. The data from COG-UK says that the pre-Xmas wave was caused by 16-25 year olds coming back from holidays in Spain, Croatia and Greece. The cases prevalence and emergence of B.1.1.7 (Kent) with 0.4 higher R is then what drove the peak of deaths that is now ending. That is why we cannot open travel yet. You cannot hear any propaganda that the problem, and all those deaths, was caused by people who were not themselves at significant risk can you. However that is the way it was and that is why your general approach is wrong headed from a Public Health perspective.

[asperity]

3 minutes ago, Confused52 said:

The lockdown measures are necessary because the case rate is significantly above the rate ate which we can do genomic sequence looking for vaccine escape variants. We need to get the capability to respond to these by producing new vaccines in volume to re-vaccinate the vulnerable to reduce the death rate if those variants become significant. The recent surge testing in Lambeth and Wandsworth is needed because we do not yet have this capability yet. We are still on a knife edge and will remain so until at least the end of this year. as far as I can tell. I am not just believing   what you claim is propaganda but I am analysing it as well as checking it. The data from COG-UK says that the pre-Xmas wave was caused by 16-25 year olds coming back from holidays in Spain, Croatia and Greece. The cases prevalence and emergence of B.1.1.7 (Kent) with 0.4 higher R is then what drove the peak of deaths that is now ending. That is why we cannot open travel yet. You cannot hear that the problem and all those deaths was caused by people who were not themselves at significant risk can you. However that is the way it was and that is why your general approach is wrong headed from a Public Health perspective.

What do you mean "your general approach"? I haven't been on any foreign holidays, in fact I haven't been anywhere further than Wigan for over 12 months, so don't go laying any responsibility for any infections at my door thanks.

[Confused52]

25 minutes ago, asperity said:

What do you mean "your general approach"? I haven't been on any foreign holidays, in fact I haven't been anywhere further than Wigan for over 12 months, so don't go laying any responsibility for any infections at my door thanks.

I mean your general approach of it is up to everyone to look after themselves. An interesting response though!

[asperity]

So Con, you don't think your safety is your responsibility? Whose responsibility is it then?

[Observer II]

Well, on a Cruise ship the Captain is responsible for the safety of ship and passengers, by ensuring compliance with safety rules and procedures;  the individual passenger's responsibility is to comply with such rules etc.   Perhaps, like that Italian Cruise Ship,  the "every man for himself" aspect, applies when the Captain jumps ship prior to the passengers !     😷

[Bill]

This is getting a bit like those crazy windup scams we use to see where you think your talking to a real person but it’s just some malicious software that takes a few of your key words and twists them round to formulate a windup reply. 😊

Everyone has the right to express opinions and here on this forum we generally manage to do it without being insulting to each other but where it gets awkward is when folk start second guessing what’s in the mind of the person replying. It’s often the case that we “hear” the written words like they were spoken in a sarcastic or angry voice and respond accordingly.

As much as possible, my replies are done using a word processor to correct my lousy secondary school grammar but more importantly to give me time to think about what I write and to avoid things that might be misinterpreted. Maybe if we all took a bit more time to do this and check the validity of the data we’re discussing it might make life a bit easier for everyone.

Now sod off and stop annoying me!!!

 

Bill 😊

 

[asperity]

Ooooohh get her! 🤣🤣🤣

[Confused52]

9 hours ago, asperity said:

So Con, you don't think your safety is your responsibility? Whose responsibility is it then?

What an absurd question. Let's see how you torture this response - I suggest that in addition to being responsible for your own safety you also owe a duty of care to protect the health of others.

In my opinion the people who hid not take care and cause infections to others after their holidays in Europe last summer failed to take that duty of care seriously. They were selfish and considered only themselves.

 My intention in this comment is to point out that everyone looking after their own safety, as you suggest, is not sufficient to protect the public health and that there is evidence to support my assertion. If you have evidence to the contrary then show it. Furthermore any attempt to interpret my intention in this paragraph as anything other than that stated will obtain no reply from me.

[asperity]

You deftly avoid answering a question by calling it absurd? So I'll just take it as "I don't know" then.

 

[Stallard12]

Hang in there Asp.  I’ve run out of tranquilizers so now I’m just looking on and laughing, you’re doing great.  Liberals and the teachers lounge eh?  You can’t live with ‘em and you can’t live with ‘em.

Funny how the only facts they recognize are the ones that, using corkscrew logic, support their opinions,  All others are conveniently swept under the mat.

[asperity]

Is right Stall. I'm beginning to think that the whole world have lost their minds and have become willing to believe any old tosh the government and their spokespeople throw at them, even when what they say is in contradiction to what they said yesterday or even, in some cases, what their colleagues are saying at the same time.

An example, last week people were being fined for gathering on Clapham Common and yesterday crowds were being encouraged to gather and queue for up to 2 hours to have a Covid test on Clapham Common, looking for asymptomatic people who "may" have caught Covid. Nuts.