Too Late -

[Observer II]

I recall discussing on here about the difficulties of oxygenating damaged lungs, and the idea was raised of by-passing the lungs and oxygenating the blood externally.  Well apparently there is a method in use called ECMO.  Now given that we discussed this sometime last year, you'd think that some forward thinking expert would have signed us up and ordered a load of these machines for our ICUs. But no, seems we have less than a dozen in the whole of the UK and there are already over 3,000 applications for serious covid patients to use them.  😷

[Confused52]

28 minutes ago, Observer II said:

I recall discussing on here about the difficulties of oxygenating damaged lungs, and the idea was raised of by-passing the lungs and oxygenating the blood externally.  Well apparently there is a method in use called ECMO.  Now given that we discussed this sometime last year, you'd think that some forward thinking expert would have signed us up and ordered a load of these machines for our ICUs. But no, seems we have less than a dozen in the whole of the UK and there are already over 3,000 applications for serious corvid patients to use them.  😷

You were late to the party, it was developed in the 1950's. The nearest unit is at Wythenshaw but they don't treat crow's. 

From the OED

corvid

NOUN

Ornithology

A bird of the crow family (Corvidae ); a crow.

‘The crow intervened not to protect its fellow corvid but solely because a crow cannot resist the temptation to bully a small raptor.’

[Observer II]

Tut, tut - what an  "r"s     

[Bill]

That sounds like an awfully expensive piece of kit that’s probably just not viable with the current numbers. Plus, we now have three new medications since then that significantly improve the chances of survival and reduce the time spent in critical care which must be better than having a limited number of machines.

Shame about the crows though 😊

 

Bill 😊

[Observer II]

In the light of the ongoing expense to our economy Bill, I would have thought life saving initiatives would spare no expense.     😷

[Confused52]

14 minutes ago, Observer II said:

In the light of the ongoing expense to our economy Bill, I would have thought life saving initiatives would spare no expense.     😷

The issue is not really the capital. Each of those machines takes nearly ten times the staffing of a bed with oxygen and more that a full ventilator. The number of trained ICU staff is limited and illness as well as needing to self isolate takes the number down at exactly the same time that the demand goes up. The solution of more machines doesn't work in the short to medium term and if the vaccine works would just be wasted. Labour ideas of spending more and more money is sometimes little more than virtue signalling. The same is true of the broadcast arm of Labour in BBC News.

[asperity]

Don't you think we've already wasted enough money on unused ventilators, unused Nightingale Hospitals, Track and Trace consultants (hundreds of them on £165,000 p/a), etc Obs?

[Observer II]

Seems to me that all the resources we have need to be applied to the problem.     😷

[asperity]

Ever hear the expression "Throwing good money after bad" Obs?

[Observer II]

The problem is one of aligning policy with implimentation and organisation.   Various false dawns have occurred due to this deficiency - thus the financial waste.    😷

[Davy51]

I would think the best policy would be to find a way of administering  the vaccine on every street corner as a means of defeating this virus. Perhaps on the old sugar lump that can be delivered to or collected by & taken by individuals with less time consuming fanfare & red tape.

[asperity]

2 hours ago, Davy51 said:

I would think the best policy would be to find a way of administering  the vaccine on every street corner as a means of defeating this virus. Perhaps on the old sugar lump that can be delivered to or collected by & taken by individuals with less time consuming fanfare & red tape.

From what has been announced it would seem that they are at least increasing the number of venues where vaccinations are being administered and it would seem to be a 7 days a week operation. However from the way it has been presented in the media it appears that each vaccination must be attended by at least 2 nurses and a photographer if not a TV crew 😂, and announced in the press and on news bulletins 😀.

[Observer II]

If they start using Chemist shops, how will they know who qualifies and who's queue jumping ?   😷

[asperity]

I assume that, in line with the organisation shown this far, who knows? Speaking for myself, when I get a call to come and get it I'll just carry on doing what I've been doing for the past 9 months - sit at home and try to avoid the temptation to check on the size of the queue outside Maccies 😉.

[Observer II]

Well, the size of the queues for this jab, form densely packed lines outside the GPs surgeries, so perhaps need to be avoided !   😷

[asperity]

I'm curious, how can people form queues outside GP surgeries if they haven't been told that they are in line for, due for, a vaccination?

[Confused52]

15 minutes ago, asperity said:

I'm curious, how can people form queues outside GP surgeries if they haven't been told that they are in line for, due for, a vaccination?

Like this Covid: London patients queue for vaccine in near-freezing temperatures - LBC

and they had been told but they failed to expect the NHS to behave the way it usually does; it will be the Governments fault I expect.

[Evil Sid]

Had a text from Mrs sid's doctor to say that they will contact her to make an appointment when  her name comes up on the list for the vaccine. I am assuming my doctors will be the same system.

if it is run like they did with the"normal" flu jab there will be no queues apart from maybe two or three people waiting their turn.

Walked in waited three minutes before name called. swab arm stab ok done walk out that way. One way system in the place in the front and out the back. took me longer to park the car than it did getting the jab.

[Bill]

That was my experience as well Sid, about just over a minute in total. But with this one, you’re more likely to be inside for about half an hour being quizzed, jabed, then having to sit down afterwards for 15 minutes. So just doing the same number of jabs would require a much bigger place and a bigger car park. And if people expect a queue then they tend to go earlier making the parking situation even worse.

I hope they’ve given the timing situation enough thought as it could end up causing huge queues of people which even if distanced isn’t ideal.

 

Bill 😊

[asperity]

12 hours ago, Confused52 said:

Like this Covid: London patients queue for vaccine in near-freezing temperatures - LBC

and they had been told but they failed to expect the NHS to behave the way it usually does; it will be the Governments fault I expect.

Maybe the practice was expecting the usual proportion of "no-shows" 🙄.

Incidentally that article is a good example of how to same the same thing three or four times in slightly different ways, the same way that the BBC makes the news last 30 minutes by: a) tell you what they're going to tell you b) tell you the news c) repeat what they've already told you d) now for the weather e) give a summary of b).

Hopefully by the time my turn comes round (assuming it's done alphabetically I'll be a long way down in my age cohort) they will have it down to a fine art 😉.

[Confused52]

I am intrigued by the organisation, or lack of it, and also the lack of openness from the local NHS. I have a suspicion that the organisation is being done by the Local Primary Care Networks, I don't think many people know who they are. I am suspecting that your surgery will get slots to fill at the site used by the PCN of which it is a part so the order will appear pretty random. We will have to see if they ever admit what they are doing. It is probably unlikely as that would mean they would have to tell us if it changed later after not working.

 

 

[Observer II]

Believe they blaming the back up at the GPs surgeries on a computer glitch.       😷

[Davy51]

My doctors can cause a queue even at start of business. Even the first appointment can be kept waiting because the doctor isn't ready. I'd love to see what happened if i turned up late for an appointment.

[Bill]

Hopefully it shouldn’t be like that Davy because we should eventually be able to define an average time for the jab and make it so that nobody waits more than they have to. It worked that way for the last flu jab during the pandemic and I can’t see this being a whole lot different, so we’ll just have to wait and see.

 

Bill 😊

[Observer II]

Why was it possible to roll out he last flu jab without problems - but not this covid jab ?    I suspect part of the problem will be the supply of the one requiring to be kept frozen ?   The only question remains, the issue of confirming entitlement, if innoculation venues are increased to include chemists.    😷