Too many cooks ?

[Observer II]

Whilst we may think Boris is faffing around with covid rules,  seems Parliament are about to seize the reins -  a recipe for even more indecisive action ?       

[Evil Sid]

I can barely wait for the new rules to come out.

if you are confused now then you may need to get an interpreter to translate the gobbledy gook.

[Davy51]

I think we have too many "scientists" with differing opinions who are pulling HMG in various directions.

 

There was a family on BBC news yesterday whose little girl had symptoms ,they had been for tests & waited for the results so long that they paid £150 for private tests only to find out ,much more quickly, that the 2 year old was negative.

[Observer II]

Trying to wage war on a virus by means of debates in Parliament, doesn't appear to me to be a recipe for success.   With Party politics at play, and MPs playing to the gallery and to special interests, I think we can expect even more muddle than we've got now. We saw how Parliament confounded Brexit, I'm sure they'll do the same with Covid.  😷

[asperity]

2 hours ago, Observer II said:

Trying to wage war on a virus by means of debates in Parliament, doesn't appear to me to be a recipe for success.   With Party politics at play, and MPs playing to the gallery and to special interests, I think we can expect even more muddle than we've got now. We saw how Parliament confounded Brexit, I'm sure they'll do the same with Covid.  😷

Isn't that a good thing?🤔

[Observer II]

Not really Asp, they added over four years to the Brexit process.   😠

[asperity]

So you don't think it would be a good idea to confound Covid Obs? Really?

[Observer II]

I think you know what I meant - we need precise decision making at the optimum time - which those grand standing idiots in Parliament can't provide.      

[Observer II]

Well, it's starting to happen, now that Parliament has it's claws into the covid decision making, the politics are at play.   There are divisions along the North - South axis, as anti-virus measures appear more draconian in the North.   The only saving grace to-date is abstentions by Labour (clean hands etc), which has left "red wall" Tory MPs to lead objections.   Now assuming the Gov response is based on the scientific advise, which in turn is based on the data which suggests higher levels of contagion in the North, there will be some logic for the differentials.  Whether it's higher density housing, higher density housing occupation or simply just higher density of folk who are ignoring guidance, the jury's out.   To turn this into some kind of territorial battle, is imo the natural consequence of a too many cooks approach by including MPs in the decision making.     😷

[Davy51]

You would think, if the main killer element  of covid is pneumonia, that the best way of combating it is a dose of antibiotics off your doctor.

[Observer II]

Anti-biotics are used to combat bacterial infection,  not viral.   😷

[Evil Sid]

https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/pneumonia/treatment/

 

 The antibiotics treat the pneumonia but are no use against the virus.

[Davy51]

But isn't the pneumonia the killer ?

 

[Observer II]

Generally speaking - yes. BUT, the cause is a virus, not a bacteria, in the case of corvid;  so a robust immune system is required and those with damaged immune systems have basically no chance.  The rather primitive and invasive treatment of ventillating the lungs with oxygen under positive pressure is going out of favour, with negative pressure solutions being adopted;  I wonder why they can't oxygenate the blood outside the body, as with a heart and lung machine ?       😷

[Confused52]

35 minutes ago, Davy51 said:

But isn't the pneumonia the killer ?

 

It seems the blood vessels in the lungs become leaky as well causing something that has the look of pneumonia but is not. Covid is a very complex and nasty disease and the press just do not explain its complexity. They seem to have found that the lungs actually don't respond in the same way that they first expected. I do not understand the details but that is the reason that what they used at Warrington GH because they didn't have enough ventilators is actually better than a ventilator in many cases.

[Davy51]

Yes , i believe they used CPAP pumps which are used to treat sleep apnea which i have . They even asked me to send my pump back for use on he ICU wards. 

I have COPD but my particular problem is the blood vessels in the lungs that take oxygen into my bloodstream don't work as they should...there  is a name for it.

[Observer II]

Well, the latest three tier nonsense, offers more evidence of Boris & Co, dragging their feet and loitering behind the curve of this pandemic.  Scientist advised HMG that a full, short sharp lock down, a so-called "circuit breaker"  should have been brought in weeks ago; but our politicians are so wedded to the preservation of the "normal" economy, that they can't employ the draconian measures required.    Having said that; the evidence emerging is that this virus, related to the common cold, will continue, like the common cold, to remain with us into the future.   There is no immunity, as re-infections are now showing, which tends to blow up the herd immunity theory.  But unlike the common cold,  the consequences of infection can prove terminal.   So, either we let the virus do it's worst or continue with a stop - start preventative strategy. Take your pick.  😷  💀

[Davy51]

It sounds like the top scientists are now listening to the common sense advice of the man in the street & that gained or accrued immunity is the way covid will be tolerated in future.

[Confused52]

1 hour ago, Observer II said:

Well, the latest three tier nonsense, offers more evidence of Boris & Co, dragging their feet and loitering behind the curve of this pandemic.  Scientist advised HMG that a full, short sharp lock down, a so-called "circuit breaker"  should have been brought in weeks ago; but our politicians are so wedded to the preservation of the "normal" economy, that they can't employ the draconian measures required.    Having said that; the evidence emerging is that this virus, related to the common cold, will continue, like the common cold, to remain with us into the future.   There is no immunity, as re-infections are now showing, which tends to blow up the herd immunity theory.  But unlike the common cold,  the consequences of infection can prove terminal.   So, either we let the virus do it's worst or continue with a stop - start preventative strategy. Take your pick.  😷  💀

I am unsure that anything in this post was wholly correct at all! There I have chosen to ignore that post. ( Ah the circuit breaker bit being in the SAGE minutes was true but what they recommend is subject to political decisions because they SAGE have no funds to pay for the consequences)

[Observer II]

Think your confusing opinion with facts, where no facts exist, and you haven't ignored it - you replied.   😷

[Observer II]

As Boris & Co faff around with their three tier system, which now has 17 exemptions,  seems Joe Public is getting hissed off - just seen an opinion poll showing 70% dislike of this devisive approach.  Seems Starmer has got the scent and has now jumped off his fence to demand a total, two week lock down for all of England.         😷

[Observer II]

Now we've got City Mayors playing politics - just hope when it comes to cooking the buns Andy doesn't Burn'em.       😷

[Confused52]

On 10/13/2020 at 8:48 PM, Observer II said:

As Boris & Co faff around with their three tier system, which now has 17 exemptions,  seems Joe Public is getting hissed off - just seen an opinion poll showing 70% dislike of this devisive approach.  Seems Starmer has got the scent and has now jumped off his fence to demand a total, two week lock down for all of England.         😷

Where is this poll?

[Confused52]

1 hour ago, Observer II said:

Now we've got City Mayors playing politics - just hope when it comes to cooking the buns Andy doesn't Burn'em.       😷

Burnham is not a city Mayor though. He is the Mayor of the Greater Manchester Combined Authority. When it comes to authority he is a bit short, the function of "Helping protect people from the dangers of communicable diseases and environmental threats." falls to the Metropolitan Borough councils of Greater Manchester such as Manchester City Council, which does have a Lord Mayor ( Councillor Abid Latif Chohan) and is not Andy Burnham. The Covid case counts are all against the upper tier local authority who have the relevant responsibility and the Combined Authority isn't one of those. Burnham needs to butt out - it isn't his job - he is just acting as a political ringleader and trouble maker.

 

[Davy51]

I must say all this talk of the contact breaker lockdown is nonsensical considering we had a 3 month lock down that obviously did nothing to beat the virus . It just delayed the inevitable. If this virus is similar to the common cold then we may all have to get used to receiving several versions of the virus every year. I'm sure we have all experienced more than one cold per annum.