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COVID-19 infection numbers reach new high


Gary
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Or possibly the virus has run out of vulnerable old people to kill. Still no reason to lock up young University students though is it? Or threatening further lockdowns and pub restrictions.

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Well yes,  who are the folk attending crowded raves, partying in the streets after the pubs close, travelling abroad still etc ?   I doubt many grumpies, with notable exceptions like Piers Corbyn, will be risking it.  Now if herd immunity is the objective, that should work in theory,  but it's not yet proven that immunity can be achieved and it's now becoming evident that younger folk are dying from infection or requiring ICU care, which will again overload the NHS and create groundhog day this Winter.  😷

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3 minutes ago, asperity said:

The NHS has been overloaded? When was that? The Nightingale hospitals haven't been used and cancer patients neglected.

Be fair Obs said "will" the future tense and you asked "When was that" and enquiry about the past. Personally I think the University should take their responsibilities of being in loco parentis  seriously and enforce self isolation for any household that has an infection or uses shared facilities with a household that is infected. A infection in a hall of residence and they should be shut down. What did they think was going to happen when they partied like crazy before going to uni. The authorities are clearly more responsible than their real parents!

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13 minutes ago, Confused52 said:

Be fair Obs said "will" the future tense and you asked "When was that" and enquiry about the past. Personally I think the University should take their responsibilities of being in loco parentis  seriously and enforce self isolation for any household that has an infection or uses shared facilities with a household that is infected. A infection in a hall of residence and they should be shut down. What did they think was going to happen when they partied like crazy before going to uni. The authorities are clearly more responsible than their real parents!

What he said was "will again overload the NHS". So my question is valid to be fair. I don't know about anyone else but I'm getting fed up with being treated as a 5 year old unable to make rational decisions for my own welfare, expected to obey orders from government ministers who more and more appear to be incapable of finding their own backsides even with detailed written instructions. They try one thing, then reverse the decision a few days later without waiting to find out if their first choice has had any effect. It was suggested the other day that their scientific advisors are trying to be politicians and the politicians are trying to be scientists. Joe Biden would make more sense than some of these people.

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And there's the rub, the virus can't be stopped any more than any other virus can be stopped. We have to learn how to live with it by developing immunity which we can't do by hiding behind the sofa.

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so on that basis, close the whole country, nobody in any body going out stays out.

close all the public venues and enforce strict curfews on movement.

any protesters to be rounded up and placed in a detention camp for three weeks, no shelter, whatever food needed lobbed over the fence on a daily basis.

extreme perhaps but a logical way to combat the spread fro some people at least.

Me, well i will just muddle on for now.

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19 hours ago, asperity said:

….   I don't know about anyone else but I'm getting fed up with being treated as a 5 year old unable to make rational decisions for my own welfare, expected to obey orders from government ministers who more and more appear to be incapable of finding their own backsides even with detailed written instructions. They try one thing, then reverse the decision a few days later without waiting to find out if their first choice has had any effect. It was suggested the other day that their scientific advisors are trying to be politicians and the politicians are trying to be scientists. Joe Biden would make more sense than some of these people.

I do understand your point of view but the rules/regulations are about forcing people to make rational decisions is respect of other peoples welfare which is not something one can effectively do for oneself.

I do not have the same problem you do about reacting to events. they pre-announce changes and a week after the real event I think that with more than 6000 new cases a day and 80% of them being analyses by test and trace they will have a pretty good idea in just over a week whether their changes have worked. It was inevitable that there would be some backtracking when they found that relaxation had gone too far.

However they seem to have been caught out by the enormous spike in under 29's before kid went back to universities and that has spooked them I think.

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19 hours ago, Observer II said:

It's called wanting the cake and eat it - they want to stop the virus but aren't prepared to pay the price to the economy, so they dither between the two.    😷

Governments don't pay a price the public do. They think, in my view correctly, that the public don't want to pay that price by not having food to eat or jobs to go back to!

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Con: "the rules/regulations are about forcing people to make rational decisions is respect of other peoples welfare which is not something one can effectively do for oneself."

Why can't I make rational decisions in respect of other people's welfare? It might hold true for some or even many people, but you can't paint everyone with the same brush. For the same reason you can't shut the country down because of the death rate rising because of a virus any more than you could for any other cause of death. In fact because of the actions taken by government we are going to find a spike in deaths due to other diseases such as cancer which have gone undiagnosed and untreated because of the concentration on this virus, which is reportedly only number 24 in the list of current causes of death. What is the answer? Don't ask me, I'm only a retired Shipmaster, but there are loads of people out there on the internet who do have a solution.

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30 minutes ago, asperity said:

Con: "the rules/regulations are about forcing people to make rational decisions is respect of other peoples welfare which is not something one can effectively do for oneself."

Why can't I make rational decisions in respect of other people's welfare? It might hold true for some or even many people, but you can't paint everyone with the same brush. For the same reason you can't shut the country down because of the death rate rising because of a virus any more than you could for any other cause of death. In fact because of the actions taken by government we are going to find a spike in deaths due to other diseases such as cancer which have gone undiagnosed and untreated because of the concentration on this virus, which is reportedly only number 24 in the list of current causes of death. What is the answer? Don't ask me, I'm only a retired Shipmaster, but there are loads of people out there on the internet who do have a solution.

Wrong end of the stick, you cannot decide what others need to do and make them do it. Disagree with that.

The denier solutions to which you allude are frankly anathema in my view, in the present circumstances they amount to incitement to murder. 

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31 minutes ago, Confused52 said:

Wrong end of the stick, you cannot decide what others need to do and make them do it. Disagree with that.

The denier solutions to which you allude are frankly anathema in my view, in the present circumstances they amount to incitement to murder. 

Well if you put it that way Con, isn't denying treatment to cancer patients tantamount to actual murder? I don't, actually, know what you mean by "denier solutions" I have supposedly alluded to. I said that I don't have the answer but that there are apparently loads of people on the internet who do. Are you one of them Con, or are you just shooting down anyone who doesn't agree with you?

I'm not suggesting that I want to decide what others need to do, I'm suggesting that I should be left to decide what I do to look after my health and my well being. It's government ministers, local councillors and certain police officers (not to mention Covid Marshals) who are seeking to make people do what they want, to the extent of locking people up and fining them for using the right to free speech. Hopefully Parliament is going to start reining in those who are trying to use powers they don't actually have.

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4 hours ago, asperity said:

Well if you put it that way Con, isn't denying treatment to cancer patients tantamount to actual murder?

No because the they are not having treatment denied according to the NHS.

I don't, actually, know what you mean by "denier solutions" I have supposedly alluded to

 

 

 

 

I said that I don't have the answer but that there are apparently loads of people on the internet who do. Are you one of them Con, or are you just shooting down anyone who doesn't agree with you? No and No. Are you just picking an argument rather than having a discussion?

I'm not suggesting that I want to decide what others need to do, I'm suggesting that I should be left to decide what I do to look after my health and my well being. It's government ministers, local councillors and certain police officers (not to mention Covid Marshals) who are seeking to make people do what they want, to the extent of locking people up and fining them for using the right to free speech. Hopefully Parliament is going to start reining in those who are trying to use powers they don't actually have. 

What government is trying to do is what I was talking about. Doing the things that you cannot do as an individual to protect yourself. They also, for your benefit try to stop people manufacturing nuclear weapons in the house next door to you, do you think they should stop doing that too?

 

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It seems the deaths are being caused by Neanderthals - no, not the ones out partying after the pub, crowding on beaches etc, etc -  but the one's that mated with homo sapiens in the distant past.  According to our overworked experts, the Neanderthal genes carried by non-African Humans are making us susceptible to the attack of the virus, thus making folk more prone to dying.    :rolleyes:   😷   💀  

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11 hours ago, Confused52 said:

Well if you put it that way Con, isn't denying treatment to cancer patients tantamount to actual murder?

No because the they are not having treatment denied according to the NHS.

Well they would say that wouldn't they? There are may doctors and specialists on record expressing their concerns about this.

I don't, actually, know what you mean by "denier solutions" I have supposedly alluded to

 

 

 

 

I said that I don't have the answer but that there are apparently loads of people on the internet who do. Are you one of them Con, or are you just shooting down anyone who doesn't agree with you? No and No. Are you just picking an argument rather than having a discussion?

So you don't have any more of a clue than I have. Argument/discussion? Same thing.

I'm not suggesting that I want to decide what others need to do, I'm suggesting that I should be left to decide what I do to look after my health and my well being. It's government ministers, local councillors and certain police officers (not to mention Covid Marshals) who are seeking to make people do what they want, to the extent of locking people up and fining them for using the right to free speech. Hopefully Parliament is going to start reining in those who are trying to use powers they don't actually have. 

What government is trying to do is what I was talking about. Doing the things that you cannot do as an individual to protect yourself. They also, for your benefit try to stop people manufacturing nuclear weapons in the house next door to you, do you think they should stop doing that too?

What are the government doing for me, specifically, that I'm not able to do for myself?

My neighbour manufacturing weapons of any description? Apart from being a strawman argument, the government has a poor record on that score as well as other things.

 

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Strange that our ancestors of the distant past have been mentioned. I was only wondering the other day, if this is a coronavirus & it is related to the common cold, how long has the common cold been a blight on humanity & on that basis how long is it going to take for humans to find a tolerance to covid which is sub alarmist ? Scientists could well be trying to find a guard against covid19 for the next 10,000 years considering we have no defence against or cure for the common cold.

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