A & E

[Bill]

So I take it we’re not talking about the current situation but of that prior to Covid in which case I can only speak from my own limited and personal experience of always getting seen the same day but accepting you and others might well be struggling to see a GP.

Maybe I’ve just been lucky.

 

Bill 😊

[Confused52]

Before Covid it could take anything from a week to two weeks to get a routine appointment. Only if you used the right keywords could you get a same day or next day spot. 

[Latchford Locks]

30 minutes ago, Confused52 said:

 To get a routine appointment. Only if you used the right keywords could you get a same day or next day spot. 

Words like Spire/how much?/choose your own appointment time.

For the rest of us it's  ....................... form an orderly queue

     Last Updated Date and Time: 14/6/2021  at 12:45 PM

 

Department	Longest waiting time to be seen by a Doctor / Nurse	Number of patients waiting to be seen by Doctor or Nurse	Total Number of Patients in the Department
Runcorn Urgent Care Centre	2 hours 3 minutes	10	24
Warrington Hospital Emergency Department	Over 4 hours	44	95

 

[Confused52]

22 minutes ago, Latchford Locks said:

Words like Spire/how much?/choose your own appointment time.

For the rest of us it's  ....................... form an orderly queue

     Last Updated Date and Time: 14/6/2021  at 12:45 PM

 

Department	Longest waiting time to be seen by a Doctor / Nurse	Number of patients waiting to be seen by Doctor or Nurse	Total Number of Patients in the Department
Runcorn Urgent Care Centre	2 hours 3 minutes	10	24
Warrington Hospital Emergency Department	Over 4 hours	44	95

 

Well waht I intended to convey was something like "swelling near airway", or some other symptoms which would indicate a medical emergence. I don't have private health care but I know that mentioning it will not get you an earlier appointment with the NHS!

[Observer II]

Covid cases were filling our hospitals before Dec 2019,  before they knew about a Covid pandemic;  so will have been recorded as pneumonia on the death certificate.    😷

[asperity]

Covid cases weren't even filling hospitals in Wuhan in December 2019. The first confirmed cases in the UK were at the end of January 2020 and you couldn't say that "Covid cases were filling our hospitals" for another 2 months.

[Observer II]

Oh yes I can -  Warrington ICU was FULL in Dec 2019.   😷

[Bill]

According to the news this morning, most hospitals are full right now, trying to catch up with the cases that had to be postponed. With covid, it only takes one case and the whole ward needs to be in full isolation, so I suppose it’s not just the bed count.

 

Bill 😊

[Observer II]

Which why I would have thought they would use the Nightingale's for Covid only; but I guess the issue is staffing.   😷

[asperity]

1 hour ago, Observer II said:

Oh yes I can -  Warrington ICU was FULL in Dec 2019.   😷

It may well have been full in December 2019, but not with Covid patients because there were no Covid cases in any UK hospital at that time.

What's wrong with hospitals being full? That's what they're there for isn't it? Or would you rather have them empty except for staff making Tictoc videos for your delectation?

[Observer II]

There were no Covid cases, because no one knew what it was, other than the Chinese, but it was in the UK by Dec. 😷

[asperity]

There were NO COVID CASES ........................... but it was in the UK by December. How to contradict yourself in a single sentence.

[Observer II]

"because no one knew what Covid was" at that time; except the Chinese Gov.         😷

[asperity]

If no-one knew what Covid was, how do you know it was Covid when no-one else does? Remarkable.

[Observer II]

In retrospect, it's fairly obvious that the Wuhan incident kicked off in October/November, but was covered up by the Chinese Gov; thus allowing global spread. Thus the actual spread preceded knowledge of it - hence the pandemic.       😷

[asperity]

Hindsight is a wonderful (though not very useful, except for trying to prove a spurious point perhaps) thing.

[Observer II]

Of cause it's hindsight, but obviously you still can't accept it;   well we'll be looking at more hindsight at the Covid Inquiry; but I doubt you'll be accepting that either.        😷

[Confused52]

15 hours ago, asperity said:

If no-one knew what Covid was, how do you know it was Covid when no-one else does? Remarkable.

Not really remarkable,

Italy sewage study suggests COVID-19 was there in December 2019 | Reuters

Evidence of SARS-CoV-2 RNA in an Oropharyngeal Swab Specimen, Milan, Italy, Early December 2019 - Volume 27, Number 2—February 2021 - Emerging Infectious Diseases journal - CDC

I cannot find the story at the moment but the WHO has asked that the tests of blood samples are double checked by non-Italian labs eg in Holland and the results are expected soon. If the Dutch do confirm that the samples contain covid they will be sequenced and give extra evidence on the origin of the disease, especially if it is in anyway difference from the sequence officially released by China. Keep looking Obs it could get interesting quite soon. 

[Latchford Locks]

On 6/14/2021 at 1:09 PM, Confused52 said:

Well waht I intended to convey was something like "swelling near airway", or some other symptoms which would indicate a medical emergence. 

No you won't get an appointment for that.. Just get told to go to  A&E 

I had a problem similar a few years ago

And got the curt stock in trade answer.... ""You need to visit Warrington A&E as soon as you can"" then click ;the phone was hung up without anther word.☎️

To be fair it wasn't a medical member of the surgery by the way, just it sounded like a young girl about 20 I would guess.

[asperity]

6 hours ago, Observer II said:

Of cause it's hindsight, but obviously you still can't accept it;   well we'll be looking at more hindsight at the Covid Inquiry; but I doubt you'll be accepting that either.        😷

The backside covering started months ago so I don't expect any truth coming out from any "enquiry".

[asperity]

4 hours ago, Confused52 said:

Not really remarkable,

Italy sewage study suggests COVID-19 was there in December 2019 | Reuters

Evidence of SARS-CoV-2 RNA in an Oropharyngeal Swab Specimen, Milan, Italy, Early December 2019 - Volume 27, Number 2—February 2021 - Emerging Infectious Diseases journal - CDC

I cannot find the story at the moment but the WHO has asked that the tests of blood samples are double checked by non-Italian labs eg in Holland and the results are expected soon. If the Dutch do confirm that the samples contain covid they will be sequenced and give extra evidence on the origin of the disease, especially if it is in anyway difference from the sequence officially released by China. Keep looking Obs it could get interesting quite soon. 

All very interesting from an academic point of view, but the world leaders seem to be taking care not to point a finger at China or taking steps to stop them doing more of the same. They wouldn't want to be accused of "doing a Trump" would they.

[Confused52]

2 hours ago, asperity said:

All very interesting from an academic point of view, but the world leaders seem to be taking care not to point a finger at China or taking steps to stop them doing more of the same. They wouldn't want to be accused of "doing a Trump" would they.

Keep an eye on Biden, I wouldn't take a wager on it. The Italians are said to be happy with the results that the Dutch are due to give to the WHO. Go figure!

[Latchford Locks]

On 6/14/2021 at 3:15 PM, Observer II said:

Which is why I would have thought they would use the Nightingale's for Covid only; but I guess the issue is staffing.   😷

In that case whatever scenario we discuss.. the staff shortage problem is the same, so Nightingale units would have had serious functioning problems from day 1.

Thank God we never had to utilise them.

[asperity]

The NHS has now had over 12 months to get its house in order, recruit extra medical staff (although it seems hell bent on employing as many "diversity managers" and their assistants as possible) and arrange for the possibility of a large inrush of emergency flu patients this winter. However we can probably expect the usual mantra of "government cuts and austerity".

[asperity]

From Hansard:

I expect that the House has heard of the little document, which is circulating, about the boat race between the NHS and a Japanese crew. Both sides tried hard to do well, but the Japanese won by a mile. The NHS was very discouraged and set up a consultancy. The consultancy came to the conclusion that the Japanese had eight people rowing and one steering, whereas the NHS had eight people steering and one rowing. The NHS appointed people to look at the problem and decided to reorganise the structure of the team so that there were three steering managers, three assistant steering managers and a director of steering services, and an incentive was offered to the

22 Nov 1995 : Column 699

rower to row harder. When the NHS lost a second race, it laid off the rower for poor performance and sold the boat. It gave the money it got from selling the boat to provide higher than average pay awards for the director of steering services. That is what is happening all over the place. There is masses of bureaucracy in the health service and a denial of what people need.

Tony Benn