General disorder ?

[observer]

We're now being told by Army chiefs, that our Army is no longer fit for purpose, in defending against a Russian invasion.  Prompts a few questions, in a world of nuclear missiles, why would the Russian risk it ?   The other question would be, who's deciding our overall role in the world and the assets required to perform it ?   Having purchased two large Carriers at great expense. but without any aircraft at the moment, with concerns about insufficient support vessels to protect them, presumably our Admirals believe we can project military power around the globe. But, having had our fingers burnt in Iraq and Afghanistan, are the days of foreign adventures numbered ?  So, with competing priorities such as the NHS,  social care , housing and infrastructure, isn't it time to limit these expensive toys ?             

[Confused52]

Obs,

Of course you ask important questions but the statement that the Army is not fit for purpose is a rather tabloid interpretation. I would recommend reading the actual speech by the Chief of the General Staff which can be found here https://rusi.org/event/dynamic-security-threats-and-british-army . It seems to me to be a thoughtful and less alarmist view of the world. He also quotes Trotsky who said "“you may not be interested in war but war is interested in you.” which I see as a chilling answer "No" to your final question.

[observer]

We rely on our military chiefs to advise on what kind of war to prepare for, so that we are prepared with the right kit and tactics; something that didn't happen in the previous two world wars.  The purchase of two large, very expensive Carriers, may look impressive, but they are an indication of an offensive strategy to project power globally rather than one of homeland defence, and there's clearly no way we can compete financially with such a US capability.       

[asperity]

It is questionable whether the British Army has ever been in a position to go toe to toe against the Russian army at any time since the Crimean War.

[Davy51]

I think most right minded nations & their leaders are agreed that nuclear deterrence is expensive but necessary. I would think the great power struggle is in the sub nuclear sector , special ops & remote controlled weaponry. Even arms dealers know that total annihilation of an enemy is bad for business & standing armies with conventional weapons are expensive to run. 

It is a sad state of affairs that, despite its long history in the wake of 2 world wars, that  the UN is still presiding over a world of carnage & destruction & it seems that some nations & states still prefer war war to jaw jaw.

[observer]

Agree Asp, that's why we're in NATO, but even that would be out-numbered, and prone to early use of tactical Nukes. Which poses the question, why would the Russians risk it ?  In terms of threat; who is the most threatening ?   Since the end of the cold war, the Warsaw Pact disbanded, but not NATO.  Both NATO and the EU have since expanded eastwards right up to the old Soviet border, and has interfered in the buffer State of Ukraine;  so it's no wonder the Russians are paranoid.   In any case, there are new ways to disrupt or incapacitate a potential enemy via cyber warfare, so perhaps that's the future for defense planning. Not forgetting of course, the ever present threat of terrorism, which suggests investment in our intelligence and security services.           Dave, we currently have a symbiotic trade in arms; we make them, keeping skilled workers employed; then sell them to rich nations like Saudi Arabia, who pass them on to the Sunni/Shia warring factions, causing death and destruction to civilian populations; who then get displaced, requiring succour and aid from West, who produced the weapons in the first place.   Such is the nature of mankind, seems we haven't progressed that much, despite our technological achievments.  

[Davy51]

I don't know if you have watched the documentary House of Saud on BBC2. Interesting, i have not watched the last one yet but apparently there is a degree of corruption in Saudi Arabia.

[asperity]

23 hours ago, Davy51 said:

I don't know if you have watched the documentary House of Saud on BBC2. Interesting, i have not watched the last one yet but apparently there is a degree of corruption in Saudi Arabia.

Surely a slight understatement there Davy? In most parts of the world corruption is just part of life, we don't know how lucky we are in this country that we can go through our daily lives without having to bribe various "officials".

[observer]

Believe they now have a new Crown Prince, who seems to be sorting out his half-brothers love affair with affluence; as the drop in oil prices means a reality check for their economy.         

[observer]

Seems the Defence Secretary has gone completely hyper on the Russian threat:   whilst I suggested they may indulge in some cyber interference to disrupt our economy, and sow social disorder; why would they target the UK alone, rather than NATO and the EU ?   Why would they interfere with our energy distribution, when they can simply cut the gas they supply at source ?   Could it be, that crying wolf in this way, is merely a distraction tactic, to divert attention away from the ravages of austerity, and bolster his Ministerial budget ?      

[Davy51]

Is there indeed the old communist ideology rampant in Russia these day that says the bear is waiting to devour anything western. Times have moved on & a trading partnership with the west would be more beneficial to all involved.

[observer]

Well, if you look at their history,  it's them who have been invaded by the West - 1812, 1850s, 1919, 1941.   So perhaps their paranoia and maintainance of a large Army is justified ?  In 1812, it was the Russian refusal to comply with a (French) European embargo on all trade with Britain, that brought about Napoleon's fatal invasion and eventual defeat. Now we have a new  force in Europe, dictating the trade agenda.  

[asperity]

"the ravages of austerity"

[observer]

Commonly referred to as "cuts" !     

[asperity]

If only.............................