Border controls ?

[asperity]

4 hours ago, Togger1 said:

there you go again with the contradiction and pathetic name calling, typical Brellend

Ironic?

[Togger1]

6 minutes ago, asperity said:

Ironic?

genius

 

[Togger1]

38 minutes ago, observer said:

Their photos were printed on the front page of one newspaper;  

So how is this, in your words, "covert"?

 

[observer]

It was the newspaper that "outed" them;  whilst in public, most Remoaners will say such things as "the people have voted to leave, and I respect that";  in Parliament, out of the public gaze, they are trying everything to disrupt the Brexit process.  We've had a delegation from the LibDums visiting M.Barnier in private, and we know they are commited to staying in the EU.  We've got elements of the Labour Party, led by Starmer and Umuna,  arguing in Parliament to stay in the single market, customs union and the ECoJ; likewise in the Tory Party, Ken Clark and co. All this foot dragging serves only to encourage the EU to exploit such division, and arrogantly dictate the negotiation process. The EU is clearly out to humiliate the UK with this so-called deal, and the lack of determination in our politicians is allowing them to get away with it.  As the PM once said (but isn't saying it now), no deal is better than a bad deal;  and a bad deal is all we can expect, as exiting can't be seen to be attractive, otherwise other EU countries will follow us.     

[Togger1]

So not at all covert, unless you think the word means in full view and on the TV, but that doesn't fit your dogma.  If you know about it its common knowledge, unless of course you are so important you are consulted at every level by those in power (maybe in your fantasies).  It was always going to be a bad idea, you were told this but chose not to accept it.  Too late now so stop Bremoaning and take the medicine.

[algy]

Returning to topic, which is very easy the hard part on this forum is staying on topic as when the hand bags start swinging and the hair pulling starts logic goes out of the window, as Asp quite simply and logically stated at the start of this topic " The Republic of Ireland is part of the EU and if the EU wants border restrictions it is up to them not the UK to enforce them". If you wish to keep your animals in then it is up to you to build a fence around your property don't expect your neighbours either to build one or contribute to it's erection!.

 

 

[Togger1]

26 minutes ago, algy said:

Returning to topic, which is very easy the hard part on this forum is staying on topic as when the hand bags start swinging and the hair pulling starts logic goes out of the window, as Asp quite simply and logically stated at the start of this topic " The Republic of Ireland is part of the EU and if the EU wants border restrictions it is up to them not the UK to enforce them". If you wish to keep your animals in then it is up to you to build a fence around your property don't expect your neighbours either to build one or contribute to it's erection!.

 

 

Not all the Irish are animals  If a hard border needs building and as you suggest the EU have to build it, they can and would simply add the cost to our bill.

[observer]

Clearly covert in your case, as you weren't even aware there were any Remoaners in the Tory side of the House. 

[Togger1]

18 minutes ago, observer said:

Clearly covert in your case, as you weren't even aware there were any Remoaners in the Tory side of the House. 

Really?  How on earth do you know what I know?  Are you some omnipotent being?  You really are desperate to blame anyone or anything for the disaster that Brexit is rapidly proving to be , you were had, get used to it.  The only Bremoaning is coming from you.

[Togger1]

You still haven't explained how its covert to hide your words and intended actions in newspapers and on TV and during speeches in the Houses of Parliament?  It's not covert is it?  You just want it to sound like a conspiracy.  Bridiots need someone to aim their vitriol at I suppose.

[observer]

All politicians tone down their rhetoric in public.  Most pay lip service to honouring the referendum result, while privately attempting to sabotage the negotiation process.        The border issue is a prime example:  EU law states that any EU country that borders a non-EU country must have a hard border -  so the onus is on S/Ireland  and so is the cost. 

[Togger1]

28 minutes ago, observer said:

  Most pay lip service to honouring the referendum result, while privately attempting to sabotage the negotiation process.   

Simply put this is at best paranoia.  Have you conceded that its not a covert operation then?

[observer]

Nope, I prefer not to engage in semantics !    

[Togger1]

typical brellend, cant accept when you are wrong . Go on, off you trot.

[observer]

 

[asperity]

15 hours ago, Togger1 said:

Not all the Irish are animals  If a hard border needs building and as you suggest the EU have to build it, they can and would simply add the cost to our bill.

How are they going to add the cost of anything to a bill that doesn't exist?

All of the people in Ireland are animals, as are all of the people in all of the other countries in the world - unless you know different?

I notice that you are still "name calling" people who don't agree with you.

[Togger1]

6 hours ago, asperity said:

How are they going to add the cost of anything to a bill that doesn't exist?

All of the people in Ireland are animals, as are all of the people in all of the other countries in the world - unless you know different?

I notice that you are still "name calling" people who don't agree with you.

so the 50 billion and rising  is a little parting gift then? We are so generous, the decision to Brexit must have made us so rich we can chuck the stuff about .   I am name calling someone who has been name calling for months, you never pulled them for it, probably because they are on your side of the discussion. 

[observer]

5 hours ago, Togger1 said:

so the 50 billion and rising  is a little parting gift then? We are so generous, the decision to Brexit must have made us so rich we can chuck the stuff about .   I am name calling someone who has been name calling for months, you never pulled them for it, probably because they are on your side of the discussion. 

What the EU are saying is that we pay towards commitments we signed up to during our membership;  now we can argue over what are or aren't "commitments",  but that's the purpose of negotiations.  As the second highest donor to this club, we're going to be missed, leaving a 20% hole in their budget. So it's understandable that they would try to squeeze us for every cent,  as the remaining 27 will have to make up the difference.  But the main driver in all this, from their point of view; is ensuring that we are seen by the other 27 not to have become better off as a result of Brexit, otherwise they will start to exit too, so the whole exercise has to be seen as punitive.  Given that reality, May's earlier comment "that no deal is better than a bad deal" holds true.   No deal will no doubt involve some pain for both sides, but a reversion to WTO rules and NO divorce payment, would no doubt dilute some of the arrogance of the EU, as their manufacturers realise that tariffs are a two way process, and that will affect their exports to the UK. Unfortunately, we have a weak Government, with an EU fifth column in Parliament, undermining any possibility of calling their bluff.        

[Togger1]

Oh so simple.  And we were warned but were told to ignore those warnings by proven liars.

[observer]

Yes, Mr Osbourne has a lot to answer for !     

[Togger1]

He is in the list, but even you would have to concede that the Brexit campaign was a huge crock of lies , half truths, and false promises.  And that is why the negotiations are going so badly for our country,  the lies have come home to roost and they cant work out how to do this without tanking the economy.  If they are prepared to sanction the handing over of 50 billion it shows how vital the trade deal is.

[Confused52]

I would just add that failure by the EU to agree would cost them that money, which may or may not actually be as high as 50 Bn but also the 11 Bn capital in the European Investment Bank. The damage caused by calling in those loans due to loss of capital could be huge for infrastructure projects all over Europe but not in the UK where the called in capital could replace the EIB loans. It would also hinder the EIB's ability to provide as many loans in the future as had been hoped. The power is not all on one side. I have to say that I wish this nonsense had not started but now that it has the EU is not covering itself with glory.

[observer]

I think we can agree on that, that the Ref campaign was mainly lies on both sides, which frankly made little difference imo; as most will have made their minds up years before.  Having said that, the Leave campaign was never in a position to take any responsibility for the result, as they were never going to become the Gov charged with implementing the result, so any promises were meaningless.  The only reason the negotiations are "going so badly", is simply because, to varying degrees, the Gov and Parliament don't really believe in it .     What we do know, is that we were the second biggest net contributor to the EU, The £350million per week was an accurate gross figure (OBS); less the rebate (negotiated by Thatcher); less monies for EU projects dictated by the EU in the UK (thus recycling our money via Brussels).   With regard to "trade", I recall my thoughts in the first referendum on the EU, when I asked the question, why are we entering a block that has identical economies to our own (manufacturing based), when we still had the Commonwealth producing food and raw materials, that we then converted into finished products, thus a symbiotic trading relationship.   But the reality is much more than a trading relationship, as we have now discovered, it's a dream of a United States of Europe, with the gradual accession of poorer Nations being funded by the richer.  Thus throughout S/Europe and now E/Europe, we have brand new infrastructure funded by the EU, whilst our own has declined.  We also know from Greece and S/Europe, that much of this new bounty was wasted on a social spending binge, which they are now paying for in austerity and unemployment.      

[Togger1]

So the NHS will get £350 million extra  a week on our departure?  Bralls.  We were promised that and we were promised that we would be better off financially by the Brexit mongers,  now they are saying the opposite.  The NHS wont see that money will it?  You rabid Brascists need to blame something other than Brexit for the failure of Brexit and you are making up these allegations of "covert" schemes to not leave, its all Brullcrap but I suppose you need to blame something for the Bratastrophe you made.

[Togger1]

So the NHS will get £350 million extra  a week on our departure?  Bralls.  We were promised that and we were promised that we would be better off financially by the Brexit mongers,  now they are saying the opposite.  The NHS wont see that money will it?  You rabid Brascists need to blame something other than Brexit for the failure of Brexit and you are making up these allegations of "covert" schemes to not leave, its all Brullcrap  but I suppose you need to blame something for the Bratastrophe you brought about