Geoffrey Settle Posted August 5, 2017 Report Share Posted August 5, 2017 Hot off the press - I've created a Facebook for Warrington Pledge to Peace to gather what evidence there is that Peace events are taking place in the Town. By Peace My definition of Peace can be work in schools that I saw at St Gregory's a couple of weeks ago, commemoration events like the Hiroshima and Nakaski Bombings that took place 2 years ago on the 6th August 1945, the work against terrorism through education by the Peace Centre, 25 year commemoration of the bombing in Bridge Street next year, International Day of Peace on 21st September, Peace of Mind projects like the State of Mind Charity to help improve peoples mental wellbeing, Peace Challenge Cup against Crewe United FC etc etc. Please follow the link and let me know of others. https://www.facebook.com/Warrington-Pledge-to-Peace-717940308331332/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoffrey Settle Posted August 6, 2017 Author Report Share Posted August 6, 2017 72 years ago today the atomic bomb was dropped on Hiroshima. http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2017/08/06/national/hiroshima-marks-72nd-anniversary-atomic-bombing-japans-refusal-join-nuke-ban-treaty/#.WYcBC4jyvIU and if this happened now here is one persons vision of what would happen as everyone kicks off. http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2017/08/06/national/hiroshima-marks-72nd-anniversary-atomic-bombing-japans-refusal-join-nuke-ban-treaty/#.WYcBC4jyvIU Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asperity Posted August 6, 2017 Report Share Posted August 6, 2017 The Genie came out of the bottle that day, and there's no way it's going back! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazj Posted August 8, 2017 Report Share Posted August 8, 2017 The bombs saved the lives of millions more innocents and servicemen... The Japs wouldn't have surrendered any other way. Fully justified Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazj Posted August 8, 2017 Report Share Posted August 8, 2017 I'm just wondering if these peace types ever remember the brutal and inhumane treatment given out by the Japs to their prisoners of war? The rape and murder of women such as nurses who were caught up when Japan invaded the British held areas of the Pacific. The thousands of British servicemen who died building the Burma Railways and those killed while being used for bayonet practice. We so often see all these peace campaigners "remembering" the victims of the nuclear bombs but very rarely do we see them considering the lives of the service personel and allied civilians who were victims of the Japanese war mongering Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Togger1 Posted August 8, 2017 Report Share Posted August 8, 2017 1 hour ago, Bazj said: I'm just wondering if these peace types ever remember the brutal and inhumane treatment given out by the Japs to their prisoners of war? The rape and murder of women such as nurses who were caught up when Japan invaded the British held areas of the Pacific. The thousands of British servicemen who died building the Burma Railways and those killed while being used for bayonet practice. We so often see all these peace campaigners "remembering" the victims of the nuclear bombs but very rarely do we see them considering the lives of the service personel and allied civilians who were victims of the Japanese war mongering Have you ever studied your own countries history of evil treatment of innocent civilians over the centuries? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted August 8, 2017 Report Share Posted August 8, 2017 It was a no brainer on the part of President Trueman; his Generals fore cast the loss of around a million US servicemen during a planned invasion of the Japanese mainland (Operation Olympic), based on their fanatical suicidal performances at Iwo Jima etc. So, given the choice between us and them, he chose them, at a cost of around 80,000 dead in each City. In terms of numbers, a mere drop in the ocean compared to around 50 million dead in WW2, in the siege of Leningrad alone, the Russians lost more than the Brits and US combined war dead. This it what war involves, if you don't like it, don't do it. As Gen Robert E Lee said, it's good that war is so horrible, otherwise mankind would grow too fond of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazj Posted August 8, 2017 Report Share Posted August 8, 2017 34 minutes ago, Togger1 said: Have you ever studied your own countries history of evil treatment of innocent civilians over the centuries? Indeed.... many of which various past governments have issued apologies for. Not something to be proud of, but that wasn't what I was referring to Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoffrey Settle Posted August 9, 2017 Author Report Share Posted August 9, 2017 True about the atrocities of the Japanese army and other nations armies (still going on today in areas of the world). Didn't the 129,000 plus civilians, including most of the doctors and nurses pay a heavy price? At Sundays meeting these 'Peace Types' spoke of both sides but isn't it important to learn from history? I hear today the the North Korean's are believed to have a greater capacity than was thought to be the price - if they kick off then potentially it will be a Nuclear Winter and black rain from which there will be little or no escape. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted August 9, 2017 Report Share Posted August 9, 2017 Doubt it Geoff, not for some time anyway. The NK nuclear capacity is limited, and I'm sure the US will have targeted all their silos by now. As Clauswitz said " war is the pursuit of politics by other means", so perhaps we need to look at the politics first. The NKs will have observed that States without nuclear weapons tend to get attacked by the West for the purpose of Regime change (Iraq,Libya etc); and those with nuclear weapons don't; hence their obsession with tooling up on nukes capable of reaching the US mainland. imo No amount of "economic sanctions" will deter them from this objective. Aside from this attempt to neutralise US involvement, the NKs still have ambitions to re-unite Korea, and probably have the conventional capacity for an invasion of the south, resulting in particularly high casualties. So the question for the peaceniks, is how do you talk the NKs out of these objectives ? If NK did launch ICBMs in anger, I'm sure the US would turn it into a nuclear wasteland as soon as their ICBMs emerged from their silos. But then that would beg the question, what would the Chinese do ? Once the dogs of war are unleashed, nothing is predictable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Togger1 Posted August 9, 2017 Report Share Posted August 9, 2017 It's not the North Korean nuclear arsenal that is the danger to the world, fire and fury. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazj Posted August 9, 2017 Report Share Posted August 9, 2017 1 hour ago, Togger1 said: It's not the North Korean nuclear arsenal that is the danger to the world, fire and fury. So nothing should be done about NK then? just leave them to it until such a time as they DO launch a missile with a nuclear warhead that reaches New York? Kim Jong Un is backing himself into a corner from which the only escape to save face with his people is to launch a preemptive attack either on America or South Korea or Japan. This dictator needs sorting and sorting fast before he starts something that will escalate totally out of control Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted August 9, 2017 Report Share Posted August 9, 2017 Perhaps we could send Togger and his mates over, to give Kim a good talking to ? ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Togger1 Posted August 10, 2017 Report Share Posted August 10, 2017 7 hours ago, Bazj said: So nothing should be done about NK then? just leave them to it until such a time as they DO launch a missile with a nuclear warhead that reaches New York? Kim Jong Un is backing himself into a corner from which the only escape to save face with his people is to launch a preemptive attack either on America or South Korea or Japan. This dictator needs sorting and sorting fast before he starts something that will escalate totally out of control How do you suggest the USA "sort" this dictator"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Togger1 Posted August 10, 2017 Report Share Posted August 10, 2017 6 hours ago, observer said: Perhaps we could send Togger and his mates over, to give Kim a good talking to ? ! You don't need me, let the US military sort it, after all we need only look at their huge success Vietnam, Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, Syria. What could possibly go wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evil Sid Posted August 10, 2017 Report Share Posted August 10, 2017 It makes a change to see somebody sticking to the good old fashioned methods instead of resorting to sneaky terrorist tactics. Say what you like about Kim jon um er whatever his name is, he is not afraid to make a target out of himself and his country by sticking to the tried and trusted methods of making as big a bomb as he can and threatening the very nation that invented the bloody thing in the first place. He is applying the same tactics as they do. if it is a threat to our country attack and blow up anything that moves regardless of what side they are on. He is also trying to prove that his country is just as prepared to defend itself by conventional atomic methods as by propelling bits of lead at high velocity towards the aggressor. most "1st world" countries have atomic capability and have at one time or another threatened to use them in anger, only America has actually done so which makes you wonder at times who to be more worried about the one who can just about get an atomic weapon to te remotest part of the US or th eones that can turn the world into a small radioactive cinder several times over.... (the film the mouse that roared springs to mind.) Today's society applaud people who stand up to bullies, which in his mind, is what he is doing just on a country scale as opposed to an individual scale.He is just trying to prove that he and his country is just as good as any other country. (it is very modern day thinking in a way, everybody else has got one so I want one). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoffrey Settle Posted August 10, 2017 Author Report Share Posted August 10, 2017 Actually Sid there are only 9 countries - something I didn't know until the other week - the USSR and USA have the vast majority on them https://www.facebook.com/icanuk/videos/1453011334780384/ ask yourself how stable are these countries. South Africa has got of their weapons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazj Posted August 10, 2017 Report Share Posted August 10, 2017 3 hours ago, Togger1 said: How do you suggest the USA "sort" this dictator"? a couple of these..... and a few of these too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asperity Posted August 10, 2017 Report Share Posted August 10, 2017 As Sid said, The Mouse that Roared springs to mind! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Togger1 Posted August 10, 2017 Report Share Posted August 10, 2017 3 hours ago, Bazj said: a couple of these..... and a few of these too all that to kill one man? Ah I see, you want to kill millions of innocent civilians instead, beautiful, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted August 10, 2017 Report Share Posted August 10, 2017 It may be the stuff of films, but it seems the US (and UK !) are considering a special forces mission to "take him out", but with his level of protection, it would seem mission impossible; although the S/Ks or Chinese could possibly pull it off. He is clearly an embarrassment to China, but they won't want his Regime to fall, so perhaps they'll cut off the head to save the tail ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Togger1 Posted August 10, 2017 Report Share Posted August 10, 2017 3 minutes ago, observer said: It may be the stuff of films, but it seems the US (and UK !) are considering a special forces mission to "take him out", but with his level of protection, it would seem mission impossible; although the S/Ks or Chinese could possibly pull it off. He is clearly an embarrassment to China, but they won't want his Regime to fall, so perhaps they'll cut off the head to save the tail ? wow, are you privy to such secret planning? You must be very highly placed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted August 10, 2017 Report Share Posted August 10, 2017 Nope, just read the same (fake?) news that's available to everyone else. In the case of dictators, such an option is always a consideration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Togger1 Posted August 10, 2017 Report Share Posted August 10, 2017 so just nonsense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted August 10, 2017 Report Share Posted August 10, 2017 Errm, not quite, assassination has always been a consideration in war, from Hitler to Saddam. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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