Brexit - we are all doomed!!!

[Bazj]

We saw our favourite Irish comic at the Edinburgh Fringe and he was just baffled by Brexit. "We voted the wrong way, realised what we'd done, and just did it again" (with added expletives). 

 

what he actually meant was "We voted the way the majority of the country wanted to vote, until Brussels realised what we'd done, and just told us to do it again and don't come back until we had reversed the vote"

 

Of course democracy is a dirty word in Brussels, just as it appears to be in your labour party at the moment Steve... poor old Jeremy gets voted in by a majority (That's when more people vote one way than another - you know, like the EU referendum, Scottish referendum, that sort of thing) and then suddenly all the dummy spitters start their antics and are trying to find so many ways to get Jeremy out...

[Dizzy]

Notice the Remainians are still spitting their dummies out over the vote, holding marches to stay in - pathetic.

And no doubt should the decision somehow look likely to be overturned the Brexits will then spit their dummies out too and hold marches to still leave and to hold on to democracy.  And if it IS revoked then we may even see rattles and teddies being thrown too...EEK

 

I bet the whole world will be looking on at us laughing their heads off...or are they already

 

All bloody pathetic if you ask me, people voted 'Out' so end of.  Time to move on, get over it and get on with it.  If everyone works together there is no reason why we, as a country, can't make it work for us or do people not have any backbone anymore.

 

PS 20m dummy spitting, teddy hurling and rattle reps are now being ruled out of being new sports in the 2020 Olympics due to the UK having an advantage    

 

 

[asperity]

I doubt the world is laughing at us Dizz. A lot of the EU countries are envious, and the rest of the world is looking towards making trade agreements with us to by-pass the bureaucratic logjam that the EU represents.

[Davy51]

I think a lot of Remainers believe that Britain will somehow be towed away from Europe & out into the Atlantic. The only thing that will change is that we won't be part of Europe politically & the UK will once more get to run its own affairs,  free of Euro meddling. Nothing will change in terms of people having European holidays, people retiring on the continent or villains living on the Costa del Crime. Benidorm will still be just a couple of hours away.

[observer]

It may be the case that the PM is now backsliding over the issue of immigration by ditching the idea of a points system, but giving her the benefit of the doubt, and amending her statement that "some" control is required, to "total" control is required; she may meet the requirements of the referendum. The red line being "total" control of who and how many enter the UK, all reference to "the single market" and the EU's red line of "free movement, needs to be dismissed imo.

[Davy51]

By all accounts,the economy is off life support & able to receive  visitors. To be quite honest though,i don't understand  the problem that lame duck Obama has with the result of the referendum. This country has stood shoulder to shoulder with America for generations & for an economic & political decision to spoil that is damn poor form.

[Freeborn John]

I think a lot of Remainers believe that Britain will somehow be towed away from Europe & out into the Atlantic. The only thing that will change is that we won't be part of Europe politically & the UK will once more get to run its own affairs,  free of Euro meddling. Nothing will change in terms of people having European holidays, people retiring on the continent or villains living on the Costa del Crime. Benidorm will still be just a couple of hours away.

The fact remains that the EU panhandlers need the worlds 5th biggest economy more than the worlds 5th biggest economy needs the EU panhandlers.

And when the EU comes apart, as it will shortly, the real pecking order will become apparent, it would pay some of our Eurochums to bear that in mind.

[observer]

One of the "lies" according to Remainers, raised by the Leave Campaign; was the intent to set up an EU Army. Progress to this end is permitted by the Lisbon Treaty, and Countries such as Italy are now anxious to make progress. This of course is in line with the clear intent of EU Mandarins to create a single EU State, with total political, financial and military integration. So it seems it wasn't a "lie" after all.

[asperity]

This has always been the intent, to make a superstate by stealth, with the unelected technocrats in charge. We are well out of it, if our government ever gets around to following the wishes of the majority.

[Steve Parish]

It may be the case that the PM is now backsliding over the issue of immigration by ditching the idea of a points system, but giving her the benefit of the doubt, and amending her statement that "some" control is required, to "total" control is required; she may meet the requirements of the referendum. The red line being "total" control of who and how many enter the UK, all reference to "the single market" and the EU's red line of "free movement, needs to be dismissed imo.

What requirements? Nothing on the ballot paper about requirements.

[Davy51]

The opinion i formed from listening  to the PM the other day was that a points system was still too liberal a system & her idea would be more to do with Britain's security.

[observer]

The requirement on the ballot paper was to "LEAVE" the EU.

[Steve Parish]

If you're going to play silly games ...   Your last post implied that only "total" control of immigration would meet the requirements. That might meet your requirements but other than leaving the EU, I repeat, "What requirements"? I know what the requirements were of a Remain vote - the status quo. Suppose the eventual deal is leave the EU but stay in the single market, with freedom of movement within the EU, and pay the EU for the privilege without having any say in future EU policy - that would satisfy my requirements and would clearly fulfil the requirement of the question on the ballot paper. Just because the Leave campaign made all sorts of (false) promises doesn't make any of them requirements.

[observer]

Even the Gov and most neutral observers, accept that the main motivation behind a majority Leave vote was the desire for controls on immigration; which means that "free movement" is not an option. Which in turn, means the EU will not accept our access into the single market. However, I doubt German car workers or French farmers will be insisting on this when push comes to shove. Still if you wish to Remain in unreality, you can always vote for Owen Smith !

[Steve Parish]

I'm sure you're right. But (as the SNP made clear in Scotland, where they voted Remain) we may need more immigration. The economic forecasts for the North West say that if the economy grows, then there will be a shortfall of people to do the jobs. And if no-one fills the jobs, then we have an ageing population sustained by fewer people in work and paying taxes. In short, immigrants are paying the taxes that pay for pensions.

 

http://www.maturetimes.co.uk/whos-going-pay/

 

http://www.economicshelp.org/blog/20759/economics/fiscal-impact-of-immigration/

 

Of course, feel free to ignore the experts.

[observer]

I do indeed "feel free to ignore the experts" as they've lied all along with such propaganda. The majority of migrants will be paying little or no tax, due to low wages; those with families will be net   consumers of taxation and asylum seekers are not allowed to work at all, but will be fed and housed at tax payers expense.  As for the Scots; they are still part of the UK, the referendum was a UK wide vote     - so end of. In any  case, regurgitating old arguments won't  change the minds of over 52% of the electorate;  but it may still stimulate them to vote for parties that  won't  ignore them.................................................................................................................................................................................................................................                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  

[asperity]

The bit that people who claim that "Scotland voted to remain" choose to ignore is that the leave majority of 52% to 48% was despite the majority in Scotland and NI voting to remain. In other words if you just take the England and Wales vote then the leave majority is even larger.

[Davy51]

It ok to say we need  migrants to do jobs providing they are suited for the jobs on offer. No good letting these people in just to sponge off the state & even so our first priority should be to get our own working age people off benefits & back into work which would cut the welfare bill at a stroke. It is very convenient to blame pensioners for being a burden on the state & people easily forget that most of the present day pensioners have paid into the system all their working lives for the right to frolic in the pastures of retirement. I have worked all my life & so has my wife & it is annoying to watch these benefit scroungers on tv programmes who are getting more money than us. These are the lazy ba***rds that should be put back to work before migrants are offered jobs. Not the disabled ,the scroungers.

[Steve Parish]

It ok to say we need  migrants to do jobs providing they are suited for the jobs on offer. No good letting these people in just to sponge off the state & even so our first priority should be to get our own working age people off benefits & back into work which would cut the welfare bill at a stroke. It is very convenient to blame pensioners for being a burden on the state & people easily forget that most of the present day pensioners have paid into the system all their working lives for the right to frolic in the pastures of retirement. I have worked all my life & so has my wife & it is annoying to watch these benefit scroungers on tv programmes who are getting more money than us. These are the lazy ba***rds that should be put back to work before migrants are offered jobs. Not the disabled ,the scroungers.

Don't watch the TV programmes then. They (and the Tory papers) find bad and untypical cases just to annoy you!

 

Most benefits go not to the unemployed but on in-work benefits. And your NI contributions were paying for the last generation of pensioners who didn't live 20 years after retirement. I'm talking about (like those articles) who's going to pay for the pensions of people living way past their actuarial deadline...

 

That's the problem, really. Why is the welfare state (and the NHS) in crisis? Because we're all living longer. Why are we living longer? Because of the welfare state and the NHS.

[asperity]

Is the welfare state and NHS in crisis really? Or is it just the government saying that to keep us plebs worried? I don't know, does anyone really know? Answers on a postcard to the address below:

[Davy51]

If the benefits paid are mostly of the in work type shouldn't the government of any persuasion be looking at getting people into full time jobs at proper rates of pay that don't need to be supported by benefits ?

[Steve Parish]

In an ideal world.... but see how employers complain (and exaggerate how many jobs will be lost by increasing minimum wage).

 

I warm to the idea that every employee should be paid the living wage (the proper one, not Osborne's version) - and if the employers can't afford it, the employer should be the one to claim benefit (i.e. show the accounts, show the business is on the margin, and check for directors paying themselves too much).

[Davy51]

There certainly seems to be a lot of holes in this minimum wage law Steve. God knows what will happen when the Living Wage is introduced.

[observer]

A recent Oxfam report has claimed the top 1% earn more than the bottom 20%; with CEOs getting up to 250 times the average pay of their workers; and the wealth gap is continuing to get wider. We had 13 years of Labour, with no effort to address wealth inequality; in fact quite the opposite, with "the city" being allowed to run riot, until they carried us into "the crash".  The money IS out there, enough to fund the NHS  and more, but we've yet to get a Government prepared to gather it in, and redistribute it.  Yes the Tories have made the Plebs pay through austerity and draconian cuts in services; but we've also had an unprecedented increase in demand for services, due to population increase through immigration. The idea, that we can keep increasing our population with a regular intake of "young people"; ignores the fact that those "young people" get old too, and require public services and housing too. So a recipe for a never ending cycle of demand exceeding supply.  If anyone thinks Labour will solve anything, think again. We've got Corbyn in denial over immigration, with his mate MacDonald suggesting a world with no borders; and the latest from Owen Smith is a promise to re-apply for EU membership, including Shengen and the Euro if he becomes PM, what a balloon.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            

[Bazj]

In an ideal world.... but see how employers complain (and exaggerate how many jobs will be lost by increasing minimum wage).

 

I warm to the idea that every employee should be paid the living wage (the proper one, not Osborne's version) - and if the employers can't afford it, the employer should be the one to claim benefit (i.e. show the accounts, show the business is on the margin, and check for directors paying themselves too much).

 

Here we go again with the leftys blaming the employers again.

 

I can tell you from 19 years of running my own business Steve that many employees DO take the p**s when it comes to shirking. When we set up our company, we set it up to be a company we would like to work for ourselves. Brand new vans, all workwear provided, all tools provided, when working out of town, we paid for hotels, food and a couple of drinks for the lads. We paid full pay if lads were off sick, we gave them fuel cards and a float so they never had to be out of pocket waiting for expenses to be paid back.... with a few exceptions, all of our employees came from Warrington; from Bewsey, Orford and Dallam. Our offices were in Bewsey, we contributed locally, we contract hired our vans from a Warrington company. We bought our uniforms from VC on Lovely Lane, any supplier we could use from Warrington we did.... we couldn't do any more for the local economy and local businesses....

 

and how were we repaid? lads calling in (supposedly) sick on a Friday and Monday after nights in the cheap beer pubs in town sanctioned by your councils lax licensing laws. We gave the warnings of taking the mickey but no one listened. We were losing an average of a whole month for two men per month in sickness claims; because they knew they wouldn't lose any money and end up on SSP. So in the end we stopped the paid sickness.... and guess what, sickness levels suddenly dropped to a few days a month across the whole workforce!!

 

Then you have business rates, fuel charges and heaven help you if you happened to be a few days late paying your tax/NI or VAT payments... HMRC are down on the small businesses like a ton of bricks. We were late (by one day each time) in filing our VAT returns and paying the VAT we owed; 10% surcharge was instantly applied and we had to pay it there and then. Big businesses in the town have probably paid less over the 19 years than we have. Every quarter for 19 years we have paid VAT, never had a refund, never had a tax refund.

 

There are all sorts of incentives for businesses to employ people, but at the end of the day, sometimes it's just too costly to employ people... the average salary for me and my business partner is less than £25k a year and we have had one bonus of £5k each about 10 years ago, but we have had companies go bust on a Friday owing us in excess of £40k and then they open up again on Monday morning and we get nothing, we don't even get the option to give them a good kicking... My car is 10 years old.... my business partner doesn't even have a car

 

So next time, when you start blaming bosses for exploiting the poor downtrodden worker and applying your lefty principles of how bosses use their workforce like slaves, it may benefit you to actually speak to local small businesses for once