Another EU vote

[observer]

Oh, so we don't owe "workers rights" to EU legislation then; but to previous action by UK Trade Unions and Governments ?   The current increase in worker exploitation being a result of the demise of Trade Unions in the UK.   As for "training", that went out of fashion with the advent of Labour's obsession with  Micky Mouse University degrees.  

[P J]

We can't attribute every decision made by our government to the EU.  The EU had nothing to do with the demise of unions either.   Mickey Mouse degrees?  What is your degree in and how was it more of a qualification than todays degrees?

[Davy51]

I was there when the working time directive came in & the worker safeguards in it were below what British workers were already getting. HGV drivers for instance were given the blessing to be able to work up to 15 hours a day x 3 days a week which could include waiting about for loads etc or actually delivering & loading, but the actual driving hours stayed at 9. This was ideal for some businesses & was soon an integral part of their daily operational planning . Warehouse workers & other manual workers under the WTD were, according to its rules,actually only entitled to a 20 minute break after 6 hours work.

[observer]

Oh so the Remainians didn't claim that "worker's rights" came from our membership of the EU, during the referendum debate ?    Didn't say the EU was responsible for the demise of the Unions either, clueless kids being exploited by Dickensian employers didn't figure out that " united they stand, divided they fall", but that entails commitment.   The Mickey Mouse degrees came about with New Labour's obsession to pack as many youngsters into Universities, regardless of ability or the skills needs of the Country; allowing many a Media Studies Graduate to finish up stacking shelves in the S/Market. Then along came the Lib-Cons to start charging them for the privilege; regardless of the skills needs of the  economy. Meanwhile, the skill training of the lower orders was forgotten about.      

[P J]

What is your degree in Observer?  It must be a belter as you are demeaning a lot of other hard working students results.  I bet it's not in philanthropy

[Freeborn John]

On the subject of 'Uni', a recent report revealed that graduates from 23 (unnamed) UK universities ended up earning less than their peers who never went at all.

I reckon that higher education has been horribly mis-sold to some youngsters.  

[observer]

Not "demeaning" anyone, other than successive Govs. Labour (remember Bliar's Education, Education, Education?). Unfortunately he neglected to include vocational training in his plan, as if we no longer needed folk with trades; and we finished up with an array of degree courses of no direct relevance to the needs of the economy; then to rub salt in the wound, the Lib-Cons started charging fees for the privilege. So now we have a skills shortage, and have to poach them from other countries, thus denuding the third world of them. Myopic as usual.       

[P J]

Observer, third time of asking, what subject did you attain your degree in?  Can't be that you never were educated to a high enough level that you never achieved a degree.  They are, according to you, two a penny.  So what did you major in?

[observer]

Why is it, that in any discussion, you attempt to personalize it ? We're talking about Gov policy or lack of it in relation to education and training; which neglected vocational training in favour of a University places for there own sake. This all happened even in your lifetime, so you should actually remember it.  

[Davy51]

The whole system of wholesale industrial training has been neglected for at least the last 20 years as if various governments haven't seen a need for manual & other trades in years to come. We don't yet have a machine that does everything.

[observer]

The problem is Dave; that to-date, our political system is founded on short termism, based on winning elections every five years. No political Party thinks in terms of the next 10, 20 or even 50 years hence; and prepares a programme accordingly, and as with sport, the punters vote for instant remedies that in most cases prove elusive.   The result is normally a case of the victory of expediency over planning. 

[P J]

So we need a dictatorship or Monarchy with absolute power then ???  

[observer]

Errm, not necessarily, if folk can be educated to think beyond next week !    

[P J]

But who will represent that long term view?  You said yourself political parties are short term planners. What does that leave?  Which political party, given that they are short term planners, will put in place an education plan that will render them powerless?  You have the best ideas,  not.

[Bazj]

Maybe parliamentary terms should be doubled to 10 years to allow time for the government to actually plan long term.  

[P J]

Maybe parliamentary terms should be doubled to 10 years to allow time for the government to actually plan long term.  

 

Why not 50?

[Bazj]

Why not 50?

 

why not? Lets face it, very little actually changes when we have a change of government

[P J]

So a supreme monarch or dictator then, sod the illusion of democracy ?

[P J]

or we could try this place if we can forget our greed.  Imagine......

 

 

http://gostica.com/spiritual-lifestile/amazing-city-people-live-without-politics-no-religion-no-money/

[observer]

Political Parties are short termist, because they wish for "power" asap, for it's own sake and for the sake of the careerists within them.  As Owen Smith has said - it's fine for JC to have convictions and principles, but that doesn't necessarily provide electoral victory. The nearest we ever got to a Party with convictions winning an election was back in 1945, which was a surprise, as most folk anticipated the return of Churchill. It also was probably the only Government that produced an enduring legacy - the Welfare State and NHS.  Germany suffered hyper-inflation in the 20s and 30s; which contributed to the rise of Hitler; and since they've developed a political concensus of long term fiscal prudence; making them the leading economy in Europe. So a long term political view is a possibility, if one can root out self interest.

[P J]

so the alternative is dictatorship or absolute monarchy, or anarchy? 

[observer]

Certainly not anarchy, that's what we're moving into at the moment. Monarchy and Dictatorship wouldn't be acceptable, as they've proved to be in the past (Charles I & Cromwell).  As for democracy; we have an antiquated system in need of reform, that reflects the needs of the majority. As Churchill described it, democracy is the least worse option.

[P J]

Certainly not anarchy, that's what we're moving into at the moment. Monarchy and Dictatorship wouldn't be acceptable, as they've proved to be in the past (Charles I & Cromwell).  As for democracy; we have an antiquated system in need of reform, that reflects the needs of the majority.

 

so your answer is whinging but no answer?

[observer]

Errm - nope. Believe it or not, it is possible through education of the young, to inculcate motivation, as you seem to prove.

[P J]

you mean the air head youth with mickey mouse degrees that you refer to so often?  You genuinely believe you can educate the masses despite and against the wishes of the political parties?  Do you expect them to sit back and allow it?  You live in cloud cuckoo land.