Another EU vote

[Davy51]

I think 1.30 was a spike PJ & not a true reflection of the £ at that time. We were only getting 1.26 in May in Lanzarote.

[observer]

We've got at least four very sick economies in the EU; and they aren't the UK - so spare the doom and gloom.    

[P J]

so you refuse to accept that the referendum result has affected the economy?  Ostrich time again.

[observer]

The result has affected speculation on the economy; slightly different thing. On TV tonight,  Prof Patrick Mintford (economist), was reasonably upbeat on the situation to date.       

[Dizzy]

from 2008 until midnight tonight (errm midnight last night as I've only just realised I'm now in tomorrow...)

 

All things considered it doesn't look likes it's doing that bad to me, not that I've ever worried about the pound to euro rate anyway.

 

[Davy51]

There was an article on ITN news last night about the effect that Brexit may have on a small textile firm. It turned out that most of the workers were from overseas . My solution, if you are employing people from abroad, why not get some of our people off benefits to work for at least  the minimum wage ?

[P J]

The result has affected speculation on the economy; slightly different thing. On TV tonight,  Prof Patrick Mintford (economist), was reasonably upbeat on the situation to date.       

 

you trusting economists now Oh the irony.

[P J]

There was an article on ITN news last night about the effect that Brexit may have on a small textile firm. It turned out that most of the workers were from overseas . My solution, if you are employing people from abroad, why not get some of our people off benefits to work for at least  the minimum wage ?

 

that was always an option, any idea why the firm employs foreign labour?  Any idea why, if there are jobs, we have unemployment?  Ever heard the phrase, " I'm not doing that.It's a job for an immigrant"  

[P J]

from 2008 until midnight tonight (errm midnight last night as I've only just realised I'm now in tomorrow...)

 

All things considered it doesn't look likes it's doing that bad to me, not that I've ever worried about the pound to euro rate anyway.

 

 

Now post a graph showing the Pounds performance SINCE the referendum.

 

Here is a graph that makes you proud to be British.

 

[Freeborn John]

The US finance houses really, really didn't want Brexit, they put money into the Remain campaign and sent their yard dog Obama over to openly threaten us with the dire consequences of voting to leave the EU.

Given this malice driven market situation, with a thwarted Goldman Sachs and the rest beating on the Pound like a gong, the recent Dollar/Pound graph was never going to be pretty.

[Davy51]

that was always an option, any idea why the firm employs foreign labour?  Any idea why, if there are jobs, we have unemployment?  Ever heard the phrase, " I'm not doing that.It's a job for an immigrant"  

 

My gripe on the matter is that we have so many people of working age doing minimal hours & claiming benefits to top up their wages when these are the people the country should be relying on to produce the funds for the future of the Welfare State. It is no wonder the government are having to make cuts which are sometimes hitting the wrong people. I wonder if these immigrant labourers are being paid the rate for the job or the minimum wage even ?

[P J]

It isn't just exchange rates though, the economy is sinking at its fastest rate since the recession, inflation is up and business confidence is through the floor, if only this could have been foreseen by the so called experts.

[P J]

My gripe on the matter is that we have so many people of working age doing minimal hours & claiming benefits to top up their wages when these are the people the country should be relying on to produce the funds for the future of the Welfare State. It is no wonder the government are having to make cuts which are sometimes hitting the wrong people. I wonder if these immigrant labourers are being paid the rate for the job or the minimum wage even ?

Well it is illegal to pay anyone less than the minimum wage for which they qualify.  I listened to some farmers on radio 5 the other day and they reckon that they use a huge amount of migrant labour , not because they are philanthropists and not because they can pay them less than minimum wage but because the local population won't do the job.  It's too hard or they see themselves as above manual labour.  The upshot will be a rise in farming costs which will present itself as price rises at the supermarket.

[Davy51]

I get your point PJ. It seems as if successive governments since the mid 80s have fostered the notion of benefit related employment just to reduce unemployment figures as with part time & shared jobs. I mean ,the Roman system looks & sounds great with the population with copious amounts of leisure time & money to fund it while paid foreign lackeys produce the wealth that the country needs to sustain that lifestyle. But the figures don't add up & there is a massive bubble waiting to burst.

I remember John Major saying when he was PM that everyone would retire at 55 with loads of leisure & loadsamoney to fund a long & fruitful retirement ,but that prediction soon went up in smoke.

[P J]

I get your point PJ. It seems as if successive governments since the mid 80s have fostered the notion of benefit related employment just to reduce unemployment figures as with part time & shared jobs. I mean ,the Roman system looks & sounds great with the population with copious amounts of leisure time & money to fund it while paid foreign lackeys produce the wealth that the country needs to sustain that lifestyle. But the figures don't add up & there is a massive bubble waiting to burst.

I remember John Major saying when he was PM that everyone would retire at 55 with loads of leisure & loadsamoney to fund a long & fruitful retirement ,but that prediction soon went up in smoke.

 

that only stacks up if there is not a consistent increase in the actual amount of employed.  The bubble waiting to burst is our massively overburdening aged population, all on a pension, all far more likely to be using services such as NHS and an ever decreasing percentage of workers to pensioners.  

[Davy51]

But there isn't a consistent increase in the working population. The statistics have been massaged by all governments since the 80s to make things look good for the voters "at the next election". Thatcher's government started it by putting people off the dole & on to sick pay to get the numbers down, which gave rise to the benefit dependency we have now. Since then jobs have been split into two or even three to be covered by part timers which has also reduced dole figures & i believe once a dreaded zero hours contract is signed up to that person is then no longer registered unemployed.

None of these options to full time employment are going to benefit the economy though because they hinder the individuals chances of getting mortgages or credit. Without a fluid economy the country will stagnate & i also suspect government meddling in the DLA/Motorbility criteria will hurt the car industry significantly.

[observer]

There's generally less work required from the masses, due to increased technology; which, in theory, should allow for more leisure time or movement to social based employment, whilst still maintaining earning levels. Unfortunately, the capitalist system moves on remorselessly to accumulate more and more wealth in fewer and fewer hands. Reganomics was used to justify this with the "trickle down theory"; as throughout history, the peasants would benefit from the crumbs spilled from their master's table. Alas, rich folk only have one stomach to fill, can only drive one car at a time etc; and therefore won't spend on a scale necessary to support the economic merry go round. Therefore, a re-think along the lines of continual redistribution is required, to spread the money around, thus increasing spending and demand, which in turn creates employment, which in turn allows for more spending. The hoarding of money and it's use in casino economics to make even more money; merely starves the economy of it's life blood; keeps the poor ever poorer and saddled with increasing debts that can't be paid off; to a point where they will eventually be written off.

[Bazj]

But there isn't a consistent increase in the working population. The statistics have been massaged by all governments since the 80s to make things look good for the voters "at the next election". Thatcher's government started it by putting people off the dole & on to sick pay to get the numbers down, which gave rise to the benefit dependency we have now. Since then jobs have been split into two or even three to be covered by part timers which has also reduced dole figures & i believe once a dreaded zero hours contract is signed up to that person is then no longer registered unemployed.

None of these options to full time employment are going to benefit the economy though because they hinder the individuals chances of getting mortgages or credit. Without a fluid economy the country will stagnate & i also suspect government meddling in the DLA/Motorbility criteria will hurt the car industry significantly.

 

Not only zero hours contracts, but so called apprenticeships that they offer these days. I mean come on, can anyone really tell me you can benefit from an apprenticeship in customer services? 

 

My theory on these is that a company can take on an "apprentice" in customer service, fully train them up in about an hour, but continue to pay them apprentice wages of £3.30 an hour between the ages of 16 to 18 and so get a cheap alternative to the minimum wage rates.

 

The same applies to what we would see as "proper" apprenticeships; plumbers, mechanics, electricians etc. now that wages and rates are being eroded due to the lack of union memberships in the likes of the EETU and there are less and less requirements to pay nationally agreed tradesmen rates, employers can take advantage of bringing in "skilled" labour from Europe and pay them less than they would otherwise have to

[P J]

are there a lot of skilled tradesmen unemployed then ?

[observer]

Who supposed to enforce the law on the minimum wage, and employment conditions, these days ? I ask this, because the Sports Direct boss has been before a Parliamentary Cttee; who accused him of Dickensian practices. If so; why hasn't he been charged and jailed? All this when we're members of the EU !

[P J]

The National Living wage agreement in the UK is nothing whatsoever to do with the EU.  Osborne brought it in, don't you remember Duncan Smiths cum face when it was being announced?

[Davy51]

Minimum adult wage only comes in at 25 so it is probably ideal for companies employing women who may leave before that age to start families having given the company 6 or 7  years of cheap labour.

[Bazj]

are there a lot of skilled tradesmen unemployed then ?

 

No idea, but I know that there are no where near as many apprenticeships on offer to kids these days in proper trades as there were when I left school and we still need tradesmen, even if the kids of today are all leaving school to be customer service advisers or baristas

[Davy51]

Apparently Baz there is a 45,000  shortfall in HGV drivers in the UK & to attract new blood the age limit for HGV/PSV drivers has been reduced to 18....i just hope they are not exploited by minimum wage qualification.

As you say though Baz ,what real apprenticeships are out there that will lead to  meaningful,well paid jobs ? All the industry training boards have disappeared, but proper training is vital to rebuild the UK economy for global success. 

[P J]

Apparently Baz there is a 45,000  shortfall in HGV drivers in the UK & to attract new blood the age limit for HGV/PSV drivers has been reduced to 18....i just hope they are not exploited by minimum wage qualification.

As you say though Baz ,what real apprenticeships are out there that will lead to  meaningful,well paid jobs ? All the industry training boards have disappeared, but proper training is vital to rebuild the UK economy for global success. 

 

Thank Merkel for free movement of labour.