EU - in or out?

[observer]

    China has just slapped a 46% trade tariff on UK (high grade) steel - so much for being in the EU !   China are clearly taking the p**s  out of a gullible UK and EU; perhaps we should start selling them opium again ?!   

[Milky]

Milky, why don't you look for yourself, All I have done is repeat what the Americans said, and when you asked for proof given it.

So much for you saying you were in the fence

 

No I haven't asked for proof of what one trade official said, I have asked for a reason why the USA would not wish to enter into such an agreement and in any case it does not really matter if they do or don't.

 

Obama had plans for a free trade deal covering both North and South America, Asia and the EU  - along with some barmy idea that companies could take governments to court if they failed to look after their interests - but that is unlikely to happen, so that is the reason why the US do not want the UK to leave the EU. Also the current administration is near the end of its administration, do you know the position of the next US government will take?

 

I am on the fence because I wonder what will really change? We need governments that will support our industry, the French, German and Italian still have a lot of industry despite being in the EU, we lost ours. Emigration, every year a huge number of people come from outside the EU, we supposed to have control of boarders outside the EU. Then there is the British red tape. I just don't have faith in our politicians to deliver a deal for the UK. Take Cameron and him unwilling to upset  the Chinese.

[Milky]

    China has just slapped a 46% trade tariff on UK (high grade) steel - so much for being in the EU !   China are clearly taking the p**s  out of a gullible UK and EU; perhaps we should start selling them opium again ?!   

 

But the UK vetoed EU plans to increase tariffs for China.

[Freeborn John]

I would caution against stating that 'America is against it!' when, as I pointed out, the opposition comes from Goldman Sachs and not the 300m citizens of that country, many of whom couldn't find Yurrup on a map.

Of course, since the finance lobby in America is powerful enough to send Obama scurrying to the UK on its business, it's an easy mistake to make.

[observer]

Milky, it's in the nature of the EU that they "talk" about doing something, having had umpteen summits of the council of ministers, then for one or more members to veto a decision or even do their own thing, a gaggle of indecision. Meanwhile, the Chinese have just "done" it, showing just how much respect they have for the EU.  The Machavellian performance of our Tory Gov is another matter.

[Lt Kije]

Perhaps America does not consider us big enough to bother with a trade deal, might be wrong but most of what we sell to the USA, is services not manufactured goods, and America is big in the sector anyway, don't know, ask them, as anything I say or the out side say is speculation

[Lt Kije]

China has just slapped a 46% trade tariff on UK (high grade) steel - so much for being in the EU ! China are clearly taking the p**s out of a gullible UK and EU; perhaps we should start selling them opium again ?!

Obs you forget the EU did try to do something, But the UK government vetoed it, if we were not in the EU this would still be happening as our government have sided over there new best friend, over UK jobs, and the Chinese knowing how the UK was in trouble with steel, go ahead and slap a tariff on, with friends like that you don't need enemies. Do not blame the EU, it is nothing to do with them, this mess is firmly at our governments door. As it was them that used their veto to stop the EU moving against Chinese dumping.

[Lt Kije]

Obs, if you want to talk about steel, deal with the reality, and don't try to speculate on trying to blame the EU, the reality is our own government vetoed any EU sanction on Chinese steel.

[observer]

It's a no brainer to suggest (in our own strategic interests), we protect our steel industry, just like we did the banks; but that's a matter for domestic party politics. My point with regard to the EU, is that it is not so high and mighty economically, as the Chinese have demonstrated with contempt. Neither is it, despite the aspirations of the EU establishment, a politically unified entity, capable of instant responses to situations (EG: It's taken over 12 months to arrive at bogus deal with Turkey over the migrants), at the end of the day, it's a collection of self interests, with each State looking out for themselves, as shown by the termination of Shengen and the erection of border fences. So basically a political and economic basket case. Basically a German pipe dream of unification (and they have plenty of form on unifications), with them in the driving seat.

[Freeborn John]

Regarding the decision to irrevocably bind ourself to the EU dictatorship or not, it might be a good idea to wonder in what condition that organisation will be in 10 years time.

The phrase 'economic and social train wreck' springs to mind.

[observer]

Seems those ultra free market capitalists - the Yanks, home of the "you can't buck the market" philosophy; have slapped a 255% tariff on Chinese steel.

[Davy51]

Here's another good one, UK firms are paying 90% more in energy costs than the rest of Europe. That sounds fair !

[observer]

Perhaps that's to do with the carbon tax on fossil fuels? Meanwhile the Germans have increased their reliance on coal fired power stations !

[Lt Kije]

Carbon tax is from our British government Obs, you keep pointing things out about why we should not be in the EU, that are actually UK government policy, you need to get informed Obs, or do you just blame the EU for everything , the cost of energy is also higher in the UK, again not the EU.

 

Don't mind a debate on UK policy if that's want you want, surly it would be better on a different thread.

[Milky]

Here's another good one, UK firms are paying 90% more in energy costs than the rest of Europe. That sounds fair !

 

According to the Steel Group 25% more then the Germans and 50% more then French

 

But look on the bright side, the UK tops the league in hitting green targets and foreign aid, are you not just so proud of Cameron

[Bazj]

The British Steel Industry has the capabilities to bail itself out of this problem.... last year, British Steels pension fund stood at almost £14,000,000.00 (£14 billion) and has been steadily rising from £8.5 billion in 2006... 

 

No one seems to mention that little gem or the fact that the Plaid Cymru party would rather spend Welsh taxpayers money bringing aids sufferers to the UK for treatment at £25,000 a time

[Lt Kije]

You forgot that our own government stopped the EU from making the tariffs on Chinese steel, I take your point on the pension fund Baz, but are their not rules on pension funds and what can be done with the money.

[Bazj]

You forgot that our own government stopped the EU from making the tariffs on Chinese steel, I take your point on the pension fund Baz, but are their not rules on pension funds and what can be done with the money.

 

I have no idea on what rules may or may not apply, but rules can be changed - sometimes for the better and sometimes for the worse

 

.... after all, don't forget we originally joined a trading agreement with Europe, nothing more, nothing less and look how badly that has evolved

[observer]

Carbon taxes derive from worldwide international agreements to cut CO2 emissions and have been adopted by most countries, including EU states. Something you tree huggers would support I thought.  Since the Fukashima disaster, German public opinion turned away from Nuclear power, meaning a continued reliance on cheap coal, which they evidently don't wish to make more expensive, with green taxes.  The point I'm making is, that despite being in the EU club, all individual nations (if they've got any sense), look to their own interests first; unfortunately, the UK appears to take these things literally. If this Gov abandoned taxes on fossil fuels and support for renewables, you'd be the first to complain, but the tax is one of the reasons we can't compete on steel price.   

[Lt Kije]

The rules were changed to protect pensions from companies knicking the money

[Lt Kije]

Take the green tax off, our energy is still loot more expensive, and as you rightly said these are UK government decisions to make our energy higher price not the EU!, and you say cheap coal, German coal is very expensive, it's just the German government subsidise the cost, as they want a German coal industry, unlike the UK, Obs

[Bazj]

The rules were changed to protect pensions from companies knicking the money

 

That may well be the case, however there is currently £14 Billion sloshing around in the British Steel Pension Funds that could quite easily save their industry. As I said, rules can be changed and should be if that is what could prevent it happening in this case

[Lt Kije]

There you go Obs

http://www.climatechangenews.com/2014/10/13/europe-spends-e10bn-a-year-on-coal-subsidies/

[Lt Kije]

That may well be the case, however there is currently £14 Billion sloshing around in the British Steel Pension Funds that could quite easily save their industry. As I said, rules can be changed and should be if that is what could prevent it happening in this case

Baz, I don't think it's a bad idea, being honest I do not know the rules, but it would be worth looking at

[Milky]

That may well be the case, however there is currently £14 Billion sloshing around in the British Steel Pension Funds that could quite easily save their industry. As I said, rules can be changed and should be if that is what could prevent it happening in this case

 

THe other day the BBC said there was a huge shortfall in Tatra Steel Pension funds and the government will probably need to take the funds over?