EU - in or out?

[Lt Kije]

A Tory government nationalise an industry that they sold off, stop taking the drugs, Do you actually think about what you post or does it come out like diarrhoea. That's the biggest laugh I've had in a while. Never going to happen, think you posted that just for the laugh          

 

I know what you want Obs a Nationalist Socialist government or should that be a dictatorship, you would be good/funny in the propaganda ministry.

[Milky]

How much inward investment (jobs) does the UK get for being in the EU Obs.

 

Where would you build your factory in the UK with 60 million customers, or in the EU with 506 million customers, the answer is obvious isn't it, you build your factory in the biggest market, simple economics. We gain jobs from being in the EU. put a cost on that, It pays to be in

 

 

Would you have us wear masks?

 

This might help you

http://www.britishinfluence.org/it_s_the_british_media_that_needs_auditing

 

 

I recall many factories shutting in the UK and moving production to Poland and the Czeck Republic even before these countries were in the EU and if you feel that the UK is only capable of being an assembly line  for foreign companies then it should stay in the EU. THe UK needs to cut living standards as well if that is the case. Jaguiar has recently announced it is building its new factory in Slovakia. VW, Volvo, Scania are all building factories in Poland, the UK was not even on their list of possible countries.

 

Point out that Switzerland has not got a trade agreement with the EU covering the financial market yet its insurance and banking sector are huge and deal across the EU and the world.

[Lt Kije]

Switzerland is a tax haven and has some strange banking laws which make"s it a suppository for a large amount of money from strange people all over the World that don't want any questions asked, this is why they are quite big in the financial sector, are you suggesting we do the same. American and Japanese companies like to come here and to be fair Ireland as English is the language they speak, most Japanese speak English, we benefit in jobs, If we left the EU,they would leave, as goods made here would be subject to a tariff and so less competitive, and it would also make it harder to attract business to set up over here would it not, as anything they export to the EU would be more expensive, so they would set up in the EU.

[observer]

Just to remind you that there are over 7 billion "customers" globally, alas the world doesn't revolve around the EU, far from it. To any non-European country, 60 million customers just wouldn't be ignored.  No, we let the Chinese wear the masks, while we block their steel coming into the UK - if we're allowed.  I never imagined for a second, that a Tory Government would Nationalise anything, merely suggesting (as Labour now are), that that's the answer (so not taking drugs).  The Dublin Treaty is basically what the EU has returned to following their mismanagement of this invasion.  Camps have been set up in Greece to process migrants and return the economic chancers to Turkey, after having to bribe the Turks with £6 billion and visa free entry into the EU by 70 odd million Turks - gullible or what?  Just because these migrants have walked in without tanks etc, makes it no less an invasion; if they can't stop a million unarmed migrants, it doesn't say much for stopping a million or so armed Russians !   The problem is naïve and gullible luvvies, like you, are calling the shots and just digging deeper holes.   btw: not a very good job of "ripping apart" my argument !

[Milky]

Switzerland is a tax haven and has some strange banking laws which make"s it a suppository for a large amount of money from strange people all over the World that don't want any questions asked, this is why they are quite big in the financial sector, are you suggesting we do the same. American and Japanese companies like to come here and to be fair Ireland as English is the language they speak, most Japanese speak English, we benefit in jobs, If we left the EU,they would leave, as goods made here would be subject to a tariff and so less competitive, and it would also make it harder to attract business to set up over here would it not, as anything they export to the EU would be more expensive, so they would set up in the EU.

 

There are many legitimate banks and insurance companies owned by Switzerland that are based across the world.

 

Yes EU might impose tariffs on uk goods but then the UK would impose tariffs on EU goods  and as we import more from the EU then export we would gain. Assuming the tariff was 10% the UK would make 100 million pound a year surplus from these tariffs and could offer initiatives for foreign companies to open factories here, something it can not do under the EU rules.

 

THe UK imported £8.1 billion pounds of goods in October 2015 then it exported to the EU.

[Lt Kije]

Milky, if you were building a factory where would you build it, in the UK out of the EU or in the EU?, anything not built in the EU, is subject to tariffs, its one of the ways the EU bring investment in, so we would have to buy our way in like Norway. And if we do that we would still be subject to EU regulation with no say in it, Obsserver , does not want to be part of EFTA, fair enough, but for those in the real world, over 50% of our exports go to the EU, we could not just abandon that, so we would have to join EFTA for a period of time at the very least, Now the other countries in the EU know that, there would be a lot of horse trading but at the end of the day, the UK will not, and cannot let its biggest market disappear. the EU countries know this, do we really want a who will blink first scenario, Now Obs is going to come back and say Germany export to us, yes they do. We are a big market for them. But if we leave the Eu, Germany will have to make up the short fall, how likely will it be that they will be in any mood to give us everything we want in a trade deal, as most of the money they make from us in exports will be wiped out, We simply are not important. Obs will also say we should build up our exports to other countries, I agree with him, but this will take time, Can the UK government in the short and medium term afford to loose jobs in the mean time?.

 

Why would a foreign company invest here, we have a market of 60 million, when they can open in France and have a market of 506 million. A company will invest where it will sell more, So unless your factory sells only Black puddings that aren't  sold throughout Europe you would set up in Europe. The UK on its own would find it very difficult to get companies to invest her, especially as we are so close but would not be in the EU, with it much bigger market. The no campaign have failed to answer the investment question time and time again, as it is a question they cannot answer. America and China have both said they would not be interested in doing a trade deal with the UK outside the EU!!!,The two biggest economies in the World, even our old Common Wealth countries, that some in the out campaign say we should trade with more have told us to stay in. The only Country that has said we are better off out is Russia.

 

 Now you said in an earlier post you were on the fence over the EU, judging by your questions on here, I suspect you are in the out campaign, but if you are on the fence, check what I have said for yourself.

[observer]

Sorry Kije but your whole case is based on speculation, rather than what is or has been the reality. The EU is clearly a basket case as an organisation, and the few donor Nations have no chance of changing it, due to the fact they're outvoted in the Council of Ministers by the spongers.  

[Milky]

Sorry but I would not set up a factory in the UK. Cost of labour, energy, land, congestion, UK red tape, uncertain energy supply and so on. I might set up in the Czech Rep, or Poland, or Mexico, or India.

 

It is also logical that the USA, China or other European countries would not want to trade with the UK, they would break WTO rules.

[Lt Kije]

Czech Republic or Poland you would have access to the market, America deals with the U.K. Now, they just would not do s trade deal, so nothing would get cheaper, they are in the middle of a trade deal with the EU.

 

Obs, how can you use the word speculation and keep a straight face, as all the out campaign have is speculation, on information if we leave.

The out campaign have no idea what trade deal the Europe will give the UK if they leave, they tell everyone the UK will get everything they want, that the EU will roll over and do our bidding, but as you know full well that's speculation ????

[observer]

Errm no we don't.   I've purposely tried to avoid "speculative " argument, as no one knows the future; I've kept to what is and has been the reality with the EU, now if folk are prepared to stick with such a incompetent and corrupt  organisation they'll deserve it.  btw: I wouldn't be too confident that the EU will not collapse regardless Brexit, as a significant number of EU public opinion is turning against it, largely thanks to the disaster of illegal migration; another million into Sicily, this summer, could tip the balance !       

[Milky]

 

Obs, how can you use the word speculation and keep a straight face, as all the out campaign have is speculation, on information if we leave.

The out campaign have no idea what trade deal the Europe will give the UK if they leave, they tell everyone the UK will get everything they want, that the EU will roll over and do our bidding, but as you know full well that's speculation

 

exactly, so how do you know that the eu, usa or china will not sign trade deals?

[observer]

Presumably because, he said, they said so. The fact is however, that by definition the future is an unknown factor, one can guess, estimate or try to build on trends; but no one knows. Remember Alex Salmond, thought an Independent Scotland would be awash with oil revenues, and now oil prices have plummeted. Most economists are pessimistic about the future of the global economy, some even predicting another financial crash and depression; so we can't count on any miracles either way.

[Lt Kije]

exactly, so how do you know that the eu, usa or china will not sign trade deals?

Because they have said so publicly, As Obs knows but it does not suit his argument to acknowledge this

 

 

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/oct/29/us-warns-britain-it-could-face-trade-barriers-if-it-leaves-eu

 

From our biggest ally

[observer]

What they say now, to influence a vote; and what they do after, will be an entirely different matter - pragmatism always kicks in eventually.    (Tonight's TV news) They're even talking of the Premier League not being able to sign up European players if we exit - chasing the footy fans vote now ! 

[Lt Kije]

Obs, earlier tonight you say you do not speculate, you went head first into that, you forgot what you posted????????

 

Your last post is speculation ????????????????????????????????

[observer]

Of course it's speculation; yet another scare story from the "in" camp; I'm just repeating it on here for your info, given your TV seems to be broken !    

[Lt Kije]

It's not a scare story by the in crowd, it's what the Americans said, which makes it fact.

 

Now you can speculate that they might change their mind, but it would only be speculation on your part, and you don't do that, So you will have to take them at their word.

 

No trade deal with the UK

[observer]

They're trying to interfere with the vote, to suit their own interests; but like everything else, they would adapt to the new reality. Given the doom and gloom being painted by most economists about the global picture, the Yanks along with every other individual country will be putting up barriers to save their own jobs, in any case. 

[Milky]

It's not a scare story by the in crowd, it's what the Americans said, which makes it fact.

 

Now you can speculate that they might change their mind, but it would only be speculation on your part, and you don't do that, So you will have to take them at their word.

 

No trade deal with the UK

 why would they not sign a trade deal with the UK, because it makes no sense.

 

In any case you do not need trade deals to trade.

[Davy51]

We might see some British players in the Premier League ,that would be a novelty.

[Freeborn John]

Because they have said so publicly, As Obs knows but it does not suit his argument to acknowledge this

 

 

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/oct/29/us-warns-britain-it-could-face-trade-barriers-if-it-leaves-eu

 

From our biggest ally

'Our biggest ally' is actively trying to influence the referendum to suit its own purposes.

Huge US outfits like Goldman Sachs, JPMorgan Chase and Morgan Stanley are donating large sums of money to the campaign to keep us in Europe, £500,000 from GS alone, ever wonder who paid for those leaflets through our doors?

I find that rather sinister, since when economic carpetbaggers like that lot get involved, it isn't for the benefit of the ordinary bloke in the British street.

[Lt Kije]

Really, so you would keep the Btitish public in the dark that the Americans don't want to do a trade deal with the U.K.,on its own? As to money, why don't you look who is financing the out campaign, it's bankers who stand to make lots of money if the UK leave!

[Milky]

Really, so you would keep the Btitish public in the dark that the Americans don't want to do a trade deal with the U.K.,on its own? As to money, why don't you look who is financing the out campaign, it's bankers who stand to make lots of money if the UK leave!

 Once more, why would the USA not sign a trade deal with the UK

 

And again even if they did not the UK is a member of WTO and therefore would trade with the USA, the tariff average would be 3.5% but the USA would have to pay tariffes for trading with the UK too.

 

I wonder if LT is capable of a response other then the USA said they would not sign a trade deal.

[observer]

Right on Milky, this trade business is a two way deal; the Yanks and others will want to sell goods into a 60 million market; if they have tariffs on us, we'll have tariffs on them, likewise the EU; so ultimately a non-argument. 

[Lt Kije]

Milky, why don't you look for yourself, All I have done is repeat what the Americans said, and when you asked for proof given it.

So much for you saying you were in the fence