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So what are these "things that we can already see happening today"? Or is that just a phrase you've seen written down somewhere? Perhaps a quote from that renowned climate expert Prince (I talk to the trees) Charles? There is nothing happening to the natural world that hasn't happened before or won't happen again. It's called natural variability.

 

These "things that we can see happening today" are the melting of the polar ice caps resulting in the decline of polar bears, the rising sea levels causing islands to flood and people to become homeless, and the change in the range of breeding birds as they move to get away from the warmer temparatures that make their habitats inhospitable.

 

It's not a phrase I've written down somewhere, although I'm sure it is. It's a phrase that i have miraculously formulated from the research of scientists. Maybe some people on here should take a leaf out of my book and actually look at the research. Oh no, sorry, I forgot, you are obviously the correct ones!

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Beats defending Farage and intolerance but there we go. Baz, by the way, sees himself as the forum Clarkson impersonator

 

and of course you will never ever get the last word against PJ.... if you say something, he will always say something to turn it back again :)

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These "things that we can see happening today" are the melting of the polar ice caps resulting in the decline of polar bears, the rising sea levels causing islands to flood and people to become homeless, and the change in the range of breeding birds as they move to get away from the warmer temparatures that make their habitats inhospitable.

 

It's not a phrase I've written down somewhere, although I'm sure it is. It's a phrase that i have miraculously formulated from the research of scientists. Maybe some people on here should take a leaf out of my book and actually look at the research. Oh no, sorry, I forgot, you are obviously the correct ones!

The arctic ice was "supposed" to have completely melted away a couple of years ago. Didn't happen though, and ice levels there are average. Polar bear poulations are at an all time high and they are thriving. The antarctic is actually gaining ice mass. You must be looking at the wrong research!

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"Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down and beat you with experience"

 

Thanks for the advice PJ, but this seems worse than that to me, it's wilful ignorance.

 

You have no reasonable argument then? Just some obscure comment.

 

You won't listen to reasonable argument, that's exactly the point I'm making with the pigeon comparison (I have one Scott D. Weitzenhoffer to thank for that one).

 

Exxon, by the way, contribute a lot more than a measly $31m to climate research.

 

You see, here's you knocking over the pieces and crapping all over the board: this $31m was separate from and different to anything they may have spent on research (and Exxon's own scientists acknowledge that Co2 emissions contribute to climate change). This $31m was specifically to fund a campaign of misinformation, propaganda, if you like, which some people have fallen for hook, line and sinker.

 

From the link in #32:

 

ExxonMobil, the world’s biggest oil company, knew as early as 1981 of climate change – seven years before it became a public issue, according to a newly discovered email from one of the firm’s own scientists. Despite this the firm spent millions over the next 27 years to promote climate denial.

 

I rest my case.

 

And here you are, rather pompously, claiming victory.

 

Oh, and welcome to the game, Fuglet (I get the distinct impression I know you from somewhere, just be careful out there fella), I hope you've brought plenty of tissues to help clean up all the mess!

 

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You haven't offered a reasonable argument though, just called me an idiot for not agreeing with you or the so called "consensus". Once again, can you point out any of the many claims about global warming/climate change disasters that have actually come about?

 

This might help;

 

http://www.numberwatch.co.uk/warmlist.htm

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Well, over 100 posts back I posted this link:

 

http://www.theengineer.co.uk/energy/news/global-temperatures-cross-one-degree-warming-threshold/1021385.article

 

A bit later, this one:

 

http://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2015/nov/23/somaliland-climate-change-drought-cyclones-life-or-death-challenge

 

Here's another:

 

http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2015/nov/27/climate-change-already-forcing-worlds-birds-towards-poles-says-report

 

Now, I'd guess that you're going to say that you don't believe any of it is due to mankind's activity and that it's all completely natural, though you can't point to any evidence for this, and this is why I say you won't listen to reasonable argument. You will not concede that any change in the climate may be due, even in some small measure, to human activity. That's the denialist position, and that's what only a tiny percentage of the scientific community are saying. And that's what I'd call wilful ignorance.

 

Oh, and I didn't call you an idiot, I likened you to a pigeon.

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You don't even understand the metaphor you used - "arguing with an idiot is like playing chess with a pigeon". You aren't arguing with the pigeon.

 

I have never denied that the activities of man have perhaps contributed in any way to climate change, but climate has always changed, and always will change no matter what we do. Those 3 examples of climate change you posted are just that - examples of climate change. But in no way can the finger of blame be pointed to the activities of man with any modicum of certainty. This idea of a temperature threshold of 2 degrees is the only man made part of your story. I will repeat for the hard of thinking, the world has been warmer than it is now, and also colder. It has been warmer with less CO2 in the atmosphere and colder with more.

 

Still waiting for the reasoned debate.

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