P J Posted October 22, 2015 Report Share Posted October 22, 2015 says the man who thought 1899 was 200 years ago. According to your gormless logic WW2 started back in the 1800's and ended god knows when, in fact it never ended as history is ongoing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted October 22, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 22, 2015 Actually - 1834; but don't let that confuse your fantasy ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dizzy Posted October 22, 2015 Report Share Posted October 22, 2015 The Boxer Rebellion was a culmination of reaction against foreign interference in China, which began with the Opium Wars; so the cause existed throughout the 19th Century. That's always been my understanding of it all too Obs ie all stemmed from the Opium Wars which started in 1839. I just googled in case I was thinking of something else and found this which is interesting and explains it in easy terms. http://www.history.com/topics/boxer-rebellion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dizzy Posted October 22, 2015 Report Share Posted October 22, 2015 For at least one Japanese soldier it was 1974 before he finally accepted the war was over and surrendered!! http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jan/17/hiroo-onoda-japanese-soldier-dies That actually quite sad to read. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dizzy Posted October 22, 2015 Report Share Posted October 22, 2015 says the man who thought 1899 was 200 years ago. .... Maybe Obs had been time travelling yesterday (remember what day it was;) ) and he was in fact posting from the future hence his confusion re the years Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted October 22, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 22, 2015 Diz: I was talking about the introduction of Opium into China, which occurred around the 1830's, which means I was 15yrs out - without the need to google ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P J Posted October 22, 2015 Report Share Posted October 22, 2015 And its relevance to modern day steel pricing? Let me guess zilch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asperity Posted October 22, 2015 Report Share Posted October 22, 2015 Am I missing something here? We have to pay £Billions to be part of the EU, allegedly so that we can sell our goods in the EU market. As far as I know China isn't a member of the EU and so doesn't have to pay a membership fee, however China is able to sell all the steel it wants to the EU at low low prices. Could one of our EU apologists please explain? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted October 22, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 22, 2015 The relevance being, "dumping", in order to build reliance, obviously too difficult for some. Asp, ask PJ !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P J Posted October 22, 2015 Report Share Posted October 22, 2015 Am I missing something here? We have to pay £Billions to be part of the EU, allegedly so that we can sell our goods in the EU market. As far as I know China isn't a member of the EU and so doesn't have to pay a membership fee, however China is able to sell all the steel it wants to the EU at low low prices. Could one of our EU apologists please explain? I suggest you contact Paul Nuttall to see what he is doing Asperity or at least to explain the details. http://www.paulnuttallmep.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asperity Posted October 22, 2015 Report Share Posted October 22, 2015 I don't believe Paul Nuttall is an apologist for the EU to be fair. I was actually hoping that someone on this forum who thinks that we should stay in the EU would be able to explain this apparent disparity to the rest of us.. If that isn't too difficult? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P J Posted October 22, 2015 Report Share Posted October 22, 2015 Why? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P J Posted October 22, 2015 Report Share Posted October 22, 2015 go ask this Asperity Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asperity Posted October 22, 2015 Report Share Posted October 22, 2015 Yes exactly. Why?? Can you explain it PJ? Why does the UK have to pay the EU £Billions every year for the privilege of trading with the EU (allegedly) while a non EU contributor like China can dump it's excess production on us? Come on, it's not a difficult question. You're one of the people blaming the Chinese dumping of steel on the world market for the demise of the British steel plants (while ignoring the British governments idiotic green policies). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asperity Posted October 22, 2015 Report Share Posted October 22, 2015 You should be asking yourself why the penny hasn't dropped PJ. You can't keep blaming the tories forever while ignoring the 13 years of labour government and the EUSSR. The time has come for reality to kick in and to admit that the EU and green policies have been a massive mistake and to take back control of our country's future. And to try and portray Cameron as a tory just shows your delusion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P J Posted October 22, 2015 Report Share Posted October 22, 2015 So Cameron isn't a Tory? That your deluded way of attempting to absolve your party of choice from any blame for the disgusting policies being perpetrated on the least able to cope in this country? Newsflash, Labour haven't been in power for over 5 years, the jobs are being lost now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asperity Posted October 22, 2015 Report Share Posted October 22, 2015 I don't have a "party of choice" PJ unlike yourself apparently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P J Posted October 22, 2015 Report Share Posted October 22, 2015 You are/were the biggest tub thumping Tory on the forum but now seem fickle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazj Posted October 22, 2015 Report Share Posted October 22, 2015 but no one has explained yet why China is being allowed to dump their steel onto the European market and thus making the foreign owned steel companies in the UK close down. I thought that was why we were in the EU; to protect jobs and make trade between the EU countries easier and cheaper and then to add tarriffs to anyone from outside selling into the EU... Does this mean we could still trade with the EU if we were outside it then???? Shock Horror... that'll put the cat amongst the pigeons now! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P J Posted October 22, 2015 Report Share Posted October 22, 2015 How do you intend to stop them? When the country is cap in hand to them for infrastructure investment? Its a big bad world and heres a heads up, we are no longer a super power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazj Posted October 22, 2015 Report Share Posted October 22, 2015 How do you intend to stop them? Isn't that what the EU is supposed to do? Look after us all in a little fluffy bubble, protect our human rights to work until we die and protect our borders.... oh hang on a minute.... I can see a flaw in this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P J Posted October 22, 2015 Report Share Posted October 22, 2015 Ah, its the EU's fault. Too easy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazj Posted October 22, 2015 Report Share Posted October 22, 2015 Ah, its the EU's fault. Too easy. so if the EU is not at fault, how are China able to dump all their excess steel on the European markets? why aren't they charged these tariffs that the pro-EU lot have been claiming will make trading with Europe if we are outside of the club impossible or too expensive? Very Easy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P J Posted October 22, 2015 Report Share Posted October 22, 2015 Yep all the fault of the EU Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted October 22, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 22, 2015 It would seem that "the rules" as set by the WTO and EU; State Aid cannot be used to subsidise one's industries, in order to undercut foreign competition - it seems no one has told this to the Chinese, or rather they've taken no notice of it anyway. Those who promote the idea of a "global economy", appear to accept that this will inevitably lead to the demise of heavy industry in the Western World, simply because of cheaper Third World Labour. The problem is of course, once a steel plant shuts down, it's lost forever and the jobs and ancillary jobs, and the local community that go with it; as with the Mining communities; creating a loss of skills and more benefit dependency. At the end of the day, global "competition" is by it's very nature not fair competition, when cheaper labour is available. So, if we wish to compete on present terms, our workforce would need to adopt Asian pay rates, which some would argue we are in the process of doing. The reality is that each and every Nation in the World naturally looks after it's own interests and the interests of it's people first, with the possible exception of the UK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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