330,000 this year.

[Davy51]

Made a nice change to hear Dave on the 1 o'clock news talking about the need for solutions to be found within the countries of origin of these migrants. Maybe Europe could cope with quite a lot of migrants & refugees if all the Euro countries were as prosperous as the the northern European nations & had economies based on industry & finance...as it is we have managed to turn the warmer parts of Europe into nothing more than a holiday playground for the better off Euro citizens. Unfortunately,many people have discovered that the best value holidays are outside the Eurozone which has left some of these countries with threadbare economies, & sadly, many of the cheaper holiday destinations outside Europe are now the basket case countries that are generating these migrants.

[Dizzy]

I head Cameron saying that on the news and for once I found myself agreeing with something that came out of his mouth.  Saying that many others have been saying the same thing for a long time and it never happens.
How do you sort a country out when the people who are causing the atrocities don't give a ****  that they and forcing people out of their own homes and countries through shear fear and desperation, that's what they want them to do.  How do you get rid of these evil ba****ds without wiping out innocent people too and if  their own countries can't do anything and clearly neither can we what's the answer?  It's getting worse not better no matter what is done.

And then on tonights news the truly horrific and haunting images of a tiny little boy still wearing his little t-shirt, short and shoes washed up on a Turkish beach, his 5 year old brother though to have died too, after his family tried to  get to a better place.  Heartbreaking

[observer]

There are refugee camps just across the border of Syria, in Turkey, Lebanon and Jordan. This is where they should go, and this is where the UN and EU should be targeting aid and organising the processing of asylum claims. As for the majority from elsewhere, they are economic migrants and should be flown home.

[Davy51]

I believe the Hungarian main man is saying the problem in his country is a problem for Germany.He seems to forget the EU allowed his country to join the club & gave him a ticket for the gravy train.

 

I must say though, the scenes on the news were harrowing with people herded onto a train that stopped after 35 miles to allow hordes of police to try & remove the passengers & take them to holding camps. I would have thought countries like Hungary would have seen enough of scenes like that 75 years ago.

[observer]

Sorry Dave, but this is precisely the reason the Germans are pursuing a bleeding heart policy; a collective sense of guilt for WW2 and an attempt to atone. It may seem to be hard hearted to establish and implement pragmatic solutions to this invasion, but if you want a solution that doesn't lead to other problems further down the line, all economic migrants need to be transported to their home countries asap, and all Syrians to processing centres, preferably in Turkey or Jordan, where asylum claims can be dealt with.

[Antisthenes]

None of these people is a refugee. That category surely ceases once the threat of state-led persecution has gone. All of these people are seeking an improvement in their standard of living, like we do from time to time. Kije is right when he says that 'we' (Blair/Bush) destabilised some of the donor countries and then left - Eton Rifles 'Load up your guns, and run off home for your tea'.

It is disgusting that a human would risk the life of a child simply for betterment. Thousands of people risk their lives and those of their children by heading into the sea with the expectation of being rescued and entering the promised land. Unfortunately, by rescuing a soul from the Mediterranean Europe is accepting them for life. They know that, so this emotional blackmail will continue. There are too many aspects to cover in a HYS but in general terms there is no answer.

While the rewards remain, the people will come. British people don't understand that there is no such thing as a failed asylum-seeker who is returned to their own country, because our institutions and media dazzle us with statistics. Those that leave go only of their own volition, and often to collect a visa in order to return. Emma Thompson says we should do more as we have the space. Alas, I fear her generosity by proxy would stop a long way from the entrance to her estate.

Their journeys will only cease if they find nothing at the end of them. Until 'we' change that, sit back and count them in.

[observer]

But they won't "find nothing at the end of them", they will have succeeded in getting exactly what they want. The problems then begin within the host countries, of pressures on services and social unrest; and with this lodgement of an advanced guard, the continuation of more (relatives etc) making the same journey. Far from the sentiment we're being primed with in the media, the fathers of these kids should be charged with the reckless endangerment of their families. But a brake has to be applied now, and Hungary is trying to apply the rules accordingly.

[Davy51]

Surely then ,all the more reason that the countries that are producing these "refugees" need to have their problems remedied by whatever means necessary in order to remove the need for these people to flee for their lives.Only then will we definitely know that all the migrants are for economic reasons & can be dealt with accordingly.As it is we don't really know how many,if any at all, could be IS terrorists entering Europe as refugees.

[observer]

Let's rewind to the "Arab Spring", remember the anti-Assad protests in Syria, largely by Sunni Moslems and middle-class secular liberals?  Perhaps they expected Assad to go quietly leaving them to set up a liberal Western style democracy, which didn't happen anywhere else either; but the problem with challenging a tyranny, is that, if it bites back, you get a civil war. So, arguably, their naivity brought the present anarchy upon themselves. So the choice then is fight or flight; fight for the kind of country you aspire for, or pack up and leave. Then just to complicate matters, in marches the ideology of fundamental Islam in the form of ISIS, making Assad seem the better devil to know. So, now these middle class folk decide to "look after Jack" and leave, taking their money with them, to pay fares and traffickers en route to the land of milk and honey.  The UK has poured £900million into the refugee camps in Turkey and Jordan (twice as much as the rest of Europe put together), in order to make life bearable and to allow legitimate asylum applications to be registered and processed, in an orderly and manageable way. Unfortunately, this hasn't been good enough for the "I want it and I want it now" Brigade, who have had the arrogance to impose themselves on Europe, whether we like it or not. There are over 4 million refugees in Turkey alone, and if this advance guard succeed in their objective, the rest will certainly follow. And btw, we talking solely about the Syrian refugees, add to this the thousands of economic migrants from Asia and Africa.

[Peter T]

I find it quite ironical albeit poetic justice, that Germany is now bleating about the influx of people in vast numbers, yet a couple of years ago, when the borders disappeared, it was ok for all these Europeans to head to England. Perhaps if they had helped ease the problem then, there would be more room/housing etc to help with the current crisis.

[P J]

Germany is the second most popular migration destination in the world, after the United States.

[P J]

and this forum is still the sounding board for bigots, the narrow-minded and the ignorant, selfish, nimbys it always was.

[observer]

No use asking you for rational solutions then !

[P J]

No use asking you for rational solutions then !

and no point listening to your bigotry

[P J]

[observer]

Think you'll find that I'm suggesting solutions that are already catered for in legislation, problem is, that Germany and other bleeding hearts are trying to water down such rules to appease their myopic sentiment - hence the example you've posted.

[P J]

[observer]

Myopic sentiment isn't a solution.

[Sha]

And after looking at that tragic image PJ are you still harbouring sympathy for the evil idiots who are running off to support those from whom this innocent child was fleeing?

[Robbo]

The problem is that these people are made up of migrants and refugees. While everything possible should be done to help the refugees there comes a point where enough is enough and no amount of images of children being killed can make a difference. Many of these people have come from countries not at war such as Pakistan. If it continues then many European countries will be swamped, eventually changing the whole life style of the countries they settle in. While leaders have a duty of care to refugees they also have a duty of care to their countries own inhabitants. If that is being bigoted or racist then so be it.

[P J]

And after looking at that tragic image PJ are you still harbouring sympathy for the evil idiots who are running off to support those from whom this innocent child was fleeing?

I never harboured any sympathy for the 3 schoolgirls who left to go to Syria, I was offended by your desire to kill them by burning as punishment if they returned, which probably makes the image of a drowned toddler rather tame for your liking.

[P J]

The problem is that these people are made up of migrants and refugees. While everything possible should be done to help the refugees there comes a point where enough is enough and no amount of images of children being killed can make a difference. Many of these people have come from countries not at war such as Pakistan. If it continues then many European countries will be swamped, eventually changing the whole life style of the countries they settle in. While leaders have a duty of care to refugees they also have a duty of care to their countries own inhabitants. If that is being bigoted or racist then so be it.

In the interests of accuracy.

Your country being at war is not the only factor defining an asylum seeker.

 

 

The War in North-West Pakistan, also known as the War in Waziristan, is an armed conflict involving the State of Pakistan, and armed militant groups such as the Tehrik-i-Taliban Pakistan (TTP), Jundallah, Lashkar-e-Islam (LeI), Tehreek-e-Nafaz-e-Shariat-e-Mohammadi (TNSM), al-Qaeda, the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (ISIL), and elements of organized crime.^[30][31][32]

The armed conflict began in 2004, when tensions, rooted in the Pakistan Army's search for al-Qaeda fighters in Pakistan's mountainous Waziristan area (in the Federally Administered Tribal Areas), escalated into armed resistance.^[33] Pakistan's actions were presented as its contribution to the international War on Terror.^[34][35] Clashes further erupted between unified Pakistan Armed Forces and the Central Asian militant groups,^[36] allied with the Arab fighters, in 2008–2010.^[36][37] The foreign militants were joined by Pakistani non-military veterans of the Afghan War to the west, which subsequently established the TTP and other militant umbrella organizations, such as LeI. The TNSM established in 1992 allied with the TTP and LeI.

The war depleted the country's manpower resources, and the outcomes outlined a deep effect on its national economy, since Pakistan had joined the U.S-led War on Terror.^[38] According to the Ministry of Finance (MoF) statistics and mathematical data survey collections, the economy has suffered direct and indirect losses of up to ~$67.93 billion since 2001 due to its role as a "frontline state."^[39][40] According to the MoF-issued Pakistan Economic Survey 2010–2011, "Pakistan has never witnessed such a devastating social and economic upheaval in its industry, even after dismemberment of the country by a direct war with India in 1971."^[40]

 

By 2014, casualty rates from Terrorism in the country as a whole dropped by 40% as compared to 2011–2013, with even greater drops noted in Khyber Pakhtunkhwa^[41] despite the province being the site of a large massacre of schoolchildren by TTP terrorists in December 2014.

[observer]

So? Anyone from an affected area is entitled to travel to the next nearest safe country of safety, which in the case of Pakistan, would be Iran or India; rather than travel half way around the world to get where THEY want. Anyway, it seems that photo has done the trick, with Cameron and the press now doing a U-turn on the issue - pathetic. Makes me wonder why we didn't have a mass exodus from the UK, when the IRA were kicking off; perhaps we're made of sterner stuff !

[Davy51]

Maybe if we hadn't been swamped by economic migrants over the last few years we would have had more room for genuine refugees.  It will be interesting to see if any of our economic migrants want to jump ship & head to Germany too.

[P J]

The civilised world needs to intervene & restore stability & order to these countries so the people don't have to leave through fear.

Like they did in Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya and Syria?