public opinion ?

[observer]

Does anyone understand it?   Seems most Greeks want to stay in the Euro-zone, BUT aren't prepared to accept the fiscal austerity that go with.  There's an old saying "you can't have the cake and eat it"; join a club and you have to accept it's rules.  Likewise, it's looking like the UK will vote to stay in the EU, even though most people object to many of it's absurd policies. So it seems referendums won't change a thing, and we'll be back to square one afterwards. 

[Gary]

Does anyone actually care what happens in Greece?

I know plenty of people who wont go there on holiday now which will have a knock effect on the economy.

[observer]

Not quite what I'm getting at Gaz: just trying to understand the apparent inconsistency of people; on the one hand wanting to stay in the EU/Euro, but on the other, not wanting the austerity that goes with it. Same with us in the UK, probably the referendum will vote to stay in, but all the woes that breed scepticism of the EU will remain, so it will resolve nothing.

[P J]

you have been striking for a referendum on the EU for yonks.  Now that you are coming to terms with the fact that we are having one and  that most people want to stay in you are whinging about inconsistency.  You either want the people to decide or the Government to decide , please be consistent

[observer]

  The polls have been consistently inconsistent; one has a majority wanting to stay in the EU, while another has a majority wanting a curb on immigration, less red tape etc etc.  So, we'll have the referendum, and nothing will change. Except perhaps, as in Scotland, voting patterns in other elections will change - hopefully. btw: I've not been calling for a referendum, as I suspected the result all along, by fair means or foul,, hence my view that it should be a decision by our elected Parliament, when and if a majority of MPs want it..

[Davy51]

I'm sure the most decisive factor in any referendum on our membership of the EU will not be the number of votes for in or out but the number of people who actually bother to vote. Voter apathy seems to be a major problem in the UK.

[Evil Sid]

Well if all the immigrants vote we will be staying in

[observer]

  sounds like the plan ! 

[Lt Kije]

Welcome to the real world Obs, Its taken years but you have released that we will be staying in the Eu, as it attracts inward investment into the UK, and governments like inward investment so will want to stay in. 

[Evil Sid]

The thing is what is public opinion.

 

Is it what your mates said about the situation down the pub after a few lagers?

 

Is it what the man in the street said when asked a targetted question by the questioner?

 

Is it the opinion of those who are protesting in the streets?

 

What the public really want is that today the bins get emptied, today they can buy food and live their lives as they have for the last X number of years and that tomorrow will be the same as today and yesterday. yes they want change as long as things stay the same.

[observer]

Kije: It's the same inconsistency that the Greeks have shown; they don't want the fiscal austerity that goes with Euro membership, BUT still want to be members of the club, with regular bail outs. Likewise, the Brits don't want many of the results of membership but will be brow beaten by the rich and powerfull into believing that we can't exist outside the EU. The EU basically consists of a few N/European countries subsidising the rest; if you consider that a good deal, you must be deluded.

[asperity]

IMO the Greeks have been very consistent in wanting their cake and eating it without actually having to pay for it.

[Davy51]

I think the southern European countries that rely mainly on tourism would benefit from maybe a two tier system of the Euro (if possible). The richer manufacturing countries tend to have populations that now venture outside the EU for holidays because they get better value for money than in fellow Eurozone countries. Perhaps a devaluation in the southern states would bring more people in as tourists & boost their economies & ,in time, bring back prosperity.

[Bazj]

Germany has always wanted to be the big dominant force in Europe and they got their wish.... they tried aggression and that failed (with the help of the Yanks) and now they are doing it via the monetary way....

 

 

Here's a picture of Greece's finance minister at the London Conference of 1953, signing a treaty agreeing to cancel 50% of Germany's debt. Because it was the right thing to do.

[observer]

Well found Baz. I watched a prog about what happened to many of the Nazis at the end of WW2, the scientists of course, we're bagged by the Yanks and Soviets; but the interesting bit, was a group that had been set up (by the Nazis) to prepare for a post war Germany. One member of that group, became the first President of the EU !

[asperity]

First President of the EU? There's no such animal Obs:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/President_of_the_European_Union

[observer]

Think the prog refered to the original set up, The European Coal & Steel Community, which became the EEC, which became the EU.  The post would be similar to that of Junkers now, I guess.

[asperity]

And there was no EU until 1993 in any case.........................

[observer]

I apologise for not being absolutely precise Asp; but the precursor to the EEC AND EU, THE European Coal & Steel Community, was set up in 1949 and had two joint Presidents. From that it gradually morphed into Common Market which we joined; and eventually into the EU. But the ideas or motives for it's creation have been there throughout.

[Davy51]

What was EFTA ,European Free Trade Association ? Weren't us Brits in that club as well ?